Fostering Meaningful Connection in Higher Ed for Career Success
Blog Recap:
In Episode 107 of the Higher Ed Demand Gen podcast, hosted by Shiro and featuring guest Jeff Doyle, the focus is on the influential role social connections play in college student retention and how building a personal brand on LinkedIn can benefit educators and students alike. Jeff Doyle, a seasoned higher education leader with over 30 years of experience, shares insights derived from various initiatives and studies conducted at institutions like Baylor University.
A notable study at Baylor revealed a striking correlation between a student’s sense of belonging within the first 3-6 weeks of college and their likelihood of staying enrolled. Jeff emphasized that creating environments where students feel connected is critical. Initiatives like Baylor’s Line Camp and Texas A&M’s Fish Camp have been successful in fostering these early connections. Moreover, Doyle highlights how efforts such as setting up a dedicated Facebook page and hiring student leaders to encourage positive interactions can make a tangible difference.
Shiro echoed these sentiments by noting that significant entertainment events at welcome ceremonies don’t hold as much sway over retention as simple, more personal efforts to build connections among students and faculty or within small student groups. This idea is reinforced by Purdue’s Gallup study which identified six essential factors for a fulfilling college experience, including engaging teaching, caring faculty, meaningful mentorship, active participation in student groups, and taking on leadership roles.
Transitioning to the topic of LinkedIn, Jeff shared how a career transition and personal challenges led him to appreciate the platform’s potential in building an authentic personal brand. By prioritizing genuine connections and contributions over financial gains, Jeff demonstrated how he effectively uses LinkedIn to maintain records of interactions, share educational content, and schedule informative posts. His father’s influence of continuous learning and intellectual development played a significant role in Jeff’s disciplined approach.
Ultimately, Jeff’s mission is clear: focusing on excellence, living each day fully, and maintaining faith and fun in all things. Through his dedication to student success and his strategic use of LinkedIn, Jeff Doyle sets an inspiring example for both educators and students in higher education.
Read the transcription
Shiro [00:00:15]:
Welcome to the Higher Ed Demand Gen podcast hosted by Concept 3 d. If you like our content, please follow and subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple, and Google. My name is Shiro, and I’ll be your host today. And, we’re gonna be talking about a topic I love today, which is around the secret to building your personal brand on LinkedIn and the benefits that come with it. So as a guest, I have Jeff’s Jeff Doyle joining us today. Jeff is a higher ed leader with over 30 years of experience with a focus on student success and retention. He’s currently, in the working in the division of student life with Southwestern University. Jeff, welcome to the show.
Jeff Doyle [00:00:59]:
Thanks, Shiro. Happy to be here.
Shiro [00:01:02]:
It’s great to have you. And so I do ask all my guests this. Jeff, tell us what you love about higher ed.
Jeff Doyle [00:01:09]:
Yeah. I’ll tell you a story. Like, when I was growing up, my father was a professor of botany and marine biology, a historically black college, University of Maryland Eastern Shore. And my mom was a reference librarian, and it was a house full of constant learning and growing. And I was on his campus. We lived 2 blocks from another university. And I learned and grew a lot, very much science focused. Biology myself is what my major was.
Jeff Doyle [00:01:37]:
I took a lot of math in high school. When I got to college, I just focused on my academics. And I was doing really well. But the end of my second year, I was miserable. And I was like, what the heck is going on? And someone was like, Jeff, what are you involved in outside the classroom? What have you connected to? And I was like, nothing really. I thought I was just supposed to get good grades. And so I ended up I tried out for the volleyball team my 1st 2 years, didn’t make it. Made it my junior year and joined the Fellowship of Christian athletes and started volunteering.
Jeff Doyle [00:02:09]:
And that just transformed my experience. I started building friendships, with people that cared about me, that I cared about, and ultimately led to several leadership roles. And I was like, holy cow. I don’t think I wanna go to med school. I think I wanna work with college students and and help them navigate the same challenges I made. You know, one of the quotes I use is that people often actively master what they passively suffer. And so I’ve been blessed the last 30 years to work with college students and help them find what they connect to outside the classroom and grow through that.
Shiro [00:02:47]:
Amazing story. Thank you for sharing that. I I know, yesterday, I was in I was on Reddit reading just just a random ask Reddit question, which is, like, is anyone else feeling burnt out? And one of the top responses was, like, I felt this way, and I won’t describe what was they were burnt out about, but I shifted into higher ed, and now I feel like my job has a purpose. And that was the first, like, first comment at the very, very top to the response for feeling burnt out. And I was like, okay. This is this is great, and, that’s why I love this podcast. Right? I get to talk to people who are really mission driven and and focused. So appreciate that.
Jeff Doyle [00:03:24]:
It’s awesome that you’re doing this, and you’ve got some great episodes out there that I listened to in advance. So thank you.
Shiro [00:03:31]:
Yeah. Appreciate that. Well, let’s let’s jump in, Jeff. Let’s tell me a little bit more about your background and your role.
Jeff Doyle [00:03:37]:
Sure. So, yeah, once I figured this out, what I wanted to do, I was like, oh, there’s a graduate program to study this. So I got a master’s degree in counseling with a focus on college students. And, ultimately got a PhD several years later in in the study of how universities work in our run. And I’ve been blessed to work at some small public universities for 4 years, small private universities for 7 years. I’ve been at, several big privates. Baylor, I was at for 9 years as dean of students, and some big publics. I was at University of Virginia for 9 years, Appalachian State for 7 years, mainly in student affairs, but I’ve done a lot in academic affairs also.
Jeff Doyle [00:04:19]:
Oversaw a leadership minor. I’ve taught in the school of business and education, and I’ve worked with accreditation and assessment. So I’ve been on campuses of 10 universities, helping them improve how they think about their learning outcomes, and their efficiency and effectiveness. So oh, I’ve also taught some graduate courses in higher ed, which is really fun. I taught some finance in higher ed, administration organization. And so being able to sit in the classroom and talk with other people about that is is really enjoyable.
Shiro [00:04:55]:
Well, it’s it sounds like we’re gonna have to do, like, 10 episodes together because there’s a lot here. Right? There’s a lot to digest, but let’s let’s jump into one specific topic then. I know, you know, after connecting with you on LinkedIn, you’ve really built built up your network and your own personal brand within LinkedIn specific to higher ed. Can you tell me a little bit more about that journey and what it’s led to?
Jeff Doyle [00:05:19]:
Sure. Yeah. I think until I was it was almost 50, I had just poured myself into my profession at my job. Institutional loyalty is important to me. I mean, I’ve presented probably I think I had, like, 70 conference presentations and 20 something articles, but mainly, I was I was poured into my university. But I ended up leaving my dean role at Baylor. And, you know, at that point, I’d had, like, a $50,000,000 budget and hundreds of full time and student staff working for me. And I took a bit of a step down to go into an area with almost no budget and no staff.
Jeff Doyle [00:05:58]:
And, I was facing some, family challenges that I needed to focus on too. And so I was I was a bit discouraged, and I said, well, what what can I do? I think I’m capable more, and I don’t know if I’m gonna be able to do that right now in this role. You know, I tried to. But then I started learning, like, hey, there’s this whole world out there of LinkedIn. And I’d always just ignored anything LinkedIn related because I didn’t understand it. But then people were like, this is a community where you can get out and learn a lot and contribute a lot. And so I just started getting involved in that and reading about it and creating my own profile. And so it’s been through probably a 100 iterations since then.
Jeff Doyle [00:06:39]:
And I try to think about it as how do I build friendships and connections. You know, it’s not as much about how am I gonna make more money or, navigate using people to get another step up the ladder. But how do I be authentically me in an environment that, positively impacts other people? When I connected to people, I waited till I found someone interesting. What I do on campus is if I hear someone name more than twice, I write it down, and then I I I schedule I ask them if they’d like to go get coffee or drink or something and just get to know them. So I started doing the same thing with LinkedIn. And so and I kept the list. I’m very, you know, organized, let’s say, would be a nice way of saying that. And so I’ve got this list even today of over 750 people that I’ve met with in the last few years.
Jeff Doyle [00:07:34]:
I got all their LinkedIn accounts and a little bit about what I’ve learned from each one. And so I try to see each person as a gift that’s going to teach me something to help me help me be a better person. The other thing I’ve done with LinkedIn is I when I grew up, my father, every morning, he would get up at 4 or 5 AM and and read the Washington Post, and he would circle articles that he thought I should read, to learn more about. And he’d leave them on the table so when I came down for breakfast, I could read them, which wasn’t always at the top of my list. I was getting into the sports section was my first priority. But at dinner then, he would be like, okay. So who read the articles, I put out on the table this morning? You know, my sister was also a part of this. But I was the older one.
Jeff Doyle [00:08:21]:
I seemed I felt like I took the brunt of it. What did you learn today in school, and what did you learn from those articles? And so somehow, I became that same annoying person in my jobs where I was finding articles and sharing them with other people. It started out I would circulate them physically through offices where people would check. They’d seen it, then I started emailing it. And it got to the point where people were like, oh my gosh. Stop sending articles. And I was like, oh, I’ve become my dad. So on LinkedIn, I learned you can post articles and not push them in anybody’s face.
Jeff Doyle [00:08:56]:
They can choose if they wanna read it. And so it’s honestly this beautiful combination of what I care about, which is sharing things I’m learning and allowing other people to learn from them without annoying them. So I typically will try to schedule 2 or 3 posts a day. So LinkedIn just started allowing scheduling a post 3 or 4 years ago, and that’s just great. So I might be for a couple hours on the weekend and schedule 8 or 9 posts of and spread them out and just get excited to see what people say about them.
Shiro [00:09:29]:
Yeah. I mean, I I see what you did there. I I noticed that you had broken down one of my episodes, with Seth O’Dell on the campus visit and how it shifted, and you basically took away both of our key takeaways from a 50 minute conversation. You broke it down into maybe a 2 minute read. Right? And so you’re pretty much doing everyone’s job for them, like which is, like, you’re breaking down these long pieces of format and and conveying them in short format and making it more digestible. So that’s that’s amazing, and it looks like your your father prepped you for this LinkedIn boom. I don’t know however many years ago, but that’s that’s magical. Wow.
Jeff Doyle [00:10:10]:
Yeah. Yeah. The other thing that he did for me was he helped me learn to write more effectively too. So I started sharing things about who I was and putting them on a website and then often linking that to LinkedIn also. So I have a hub. You know, one of the things I really care about is and my mission statement, it’s about, my mission statement is focused on excellence, fun to be with, faithful in all things, and live every day like it could be my last. And so I’ve got this thing about leaving a legacy where, you know, just last week, the university were Southwestern, our associate vice president for human resources, 45 years old, 2 kids, and a wife, suddenly died on campus. And we were just in shock.
Jeff Doyle [00:10:57]:
Tomorrow, we have the funeral, and so we’ll be going there. But, you know, it could be our last day at any point. And so I asked myself, how do what do I do today? What do I leave behind after I go? And so I created this website where I just put the things I care most about, and a lot of it is higher ed related. Student success, higher ed. I also got, you know, stories of my family. I’ve got how I make tough decisions ethically, my mission statement in life, how I think people should clarify their purpose, and then I can tie that in to LinkedIn and share it with other people. So it takes, what’s often in our heads and makes it explicit too. So when someone asks me something, it’s got my favorite movies on it, my favorite TV shows, my favorite podcast, and I can just say, well, this is this is what I care about, you know, if you wanna know more about me.
Shiro [00:11:49]:
Yeah. No. And could could you share the website as well, by the way? Sure.
Jeff Doyle [00:11:53]:
It’s, deep thoughts, h e d, so higher ed.com. You know? And I don’t I’m not it’s not I’m not out to monetize. I don’t really try to drive a lot of traffic to it. I just put it out there, and it’s almost as much for me at this point in life as it’s it’s about my legacy. So, I mean, not that I wanna focus on me being remembered, but I’m like, if I have things to give to this world Mhmm. Maybe I could stick them here, in case, you know, I’m not here and they can go back and look at it.
Shiro [00:12:26]:
Yeah, Jeff. I I think what you’ve done here is fabulous. I’ve thought of doing something similar as well, because there’s there’s periods in in your career and job that you you take on tough challenges or new things, and you learn how to do something. Right? So my most recent example is I planned a kickoff for a company for this year, 2024, in January. Never done it before, and I figured out, you know, what was hard. I created a template, all these things. Right? But now that just lives in my head. And if I wanna recreate the wheel, I might have to start, you know, a little bit further down.
Shiro [00:13:00]:
But if I had, you know, made a a blog post about it, you know, I could I could have, documented all my thoughts and, you know, started from 90, 80%, and kept going. So it’s it’s almost like a great way to build your portfolio, not that it’s intended for that reason, but it it it does have positive outcomes in the future, I think.
Jeff Doyle [00:13:19]:
And it’s it’s how the human race has evolved over time, quite honestly. When you look at the, growth of intelligent living creatures, it’s when we started writing things down and communicating things. And so now we can go back 1000 of years, and those messages, are continued on. So we we build on each other. You know, I have a page on my website called the shoulders I stand on, which is basically, like, 75, 80 people that I could not be who I am today without them. So it’s my thank you to these people, that who I am is built on the shoulders of the people who went before me.
Shiro [00:13:57]:
That’s amazing. Shout out to everyone on that list. I I do wanna ask, so specific to LinkedIn and the network you’ve built, what has I know your intention was to network. Right? Make more friends and learn from it, but what are some outcomes that had come from all of that work? And you have, I don’t know, how many however many thousand connections now, but could can you tell us a little bit more about some of those outcomes?
Jeff Doyle [00:14:20]:
Yeah. It’s it’s interesting because I thought it might lead to a job, and it will at some point. I mean, I’ve certainly I’ve got a great job right now, and I’ve had some other jobs at universities. But I think what I’ve gotten most out of it is just meaningful connections and some external positive reinforcement. So if I see somebody in town, they’ll say, oh my gosh. I follow you on LinkedIn. You’ve got all this great stuff. So I’m like, well, I guess that’s my TikTok, you know, or my Twitter.
Jeff Doyle [00:14:48]:
You know? LinkedIn is Yeah. Is where I’m I’m giving things. So I love hearing people say that. Some people have reached out. And, you know, after I did something last week, 4 or 5 people reached out and said they wanted to meet with me and talk to me and pick my brain. I’ve had a couple CEOs of companies say they follow me and, you know, they wanna get to know me better. And so all those things have been great. You know? And I’m hoping, at some point, it opens a door to a to a job working with universities on a larger scale.
Jeff Doyle [00:15:19]:
But at this point, it’s like, I’m just gonna keep doing what I believe is is is a good thing and giving knowledge and what I care about away and then trust the process here. You know?
Shiro [00:15:31]:
Yeah. That’s amazing. I mean, ultimately, that’s what connected us too. So, it’s it’s really a powerful tool.
Jeff Doyle [00:15:38]:
Yeah.
Shiro [00:15:39]:
Alright. Well, let’s shift gears a little bit to, you know, publishing your thoughts and writing them down. Right? One of the topics I wanted to cover as as by the time this episode is published, right, it’s probably we’re probably gonna be about a month into fall semester, and I think a big need during that period is really understanding, student needs and that 1st month, 1st year experience, and trying to fit those student needs. And, it’s I you shared your website with us. Right? And, you had an article on the higher give needs for student success. We actually, completely unrelated, published a pyramid for student success, on a very similar topic of of student needs. So can you tell us a little bit more about what you believe is really important during those first few weeks as well as longer term for student retention?
Jeff Doyle [00:16:30]:
Sure. And, you know, I’d I’d like to say that I think what I’ve presented in my piece is it it’s not groundbreaking, but it is based on the extensive research of thousands of other people over the years. And I just tried to simplify it, in in the hierarchy of needs. And and folks can go and take a look at it if they want. The piece I really wanted to mention here today is the one that I think surprises most people. They think, oh, you know, obviously, I gotta have enough money to go to college and I’ve gotta get good grades. But the the piece that is often overlooked is the social connection piece. You heard my story at the start.
Jeff Doyle [00:17:06]:
Well, at Baylor, we took we we took, like, a 100 variables that we thought could make a difference. And myself and, the president of another university today, we were co leading a team on university retention. And we said, let’s just work with institutional research each year, and we’re gonna run these regression algorithms and see which of these 100 variables makes the greatest impact. And so over the course of 5 years, we shortened those variables down till we got to, like, 20 to 30. And we kept finding this one variable was, like, almost 5 times more predictive than anything else. And it it surprised some people. I think when you hear it, you’ll recognize it. But it was we asked students in weeks sometime between weeks 3 6, do you feel like you belong at this institution? And if they said no, you know, that was 5 times more predictable that in 11 months later, they would not be a student at our school.
Jeff Doyle [00:18:04]:
So if if they don’t connect at the beginning of that school year, they won’t be there the following year. I mean, I’m not saying all the time, but it was the most predictive question. So then you start to work backwards. How do we create belonging early on? So one of the things that we did at Baylor was I hired a guy that basically was an expert in communicating with students. And we created this incoming student Facebook page. They often emerge, just naturally, but we said let’s foster this. And so we started plugging admitted students in, and then we hired some students that we really liked and said your job is to foster and facilitate positive communication and share things that are gonna help these students be successful. So you you could call it a little bit sneaky, but we just saw it as it’s already happening.
Jeff Doyle [00:18:58]:
They’re using it to sell all this stuff which we don’t want, you know, it’s it’s helping someone else. We wanna help them. So we ended up having that. The other thing we did, and this is harder for some schools to do, but there’s this concept called extended orientation. And at at it started at A&M, Texas A&M, was called fish camp. At Baylor, it’s called line camp. But we bring students in for multiple days in the summer without their parents, and we build this sense of unity. They learn about institutional history.
Jeff Doyle [00:19:29]:
They’ve learned about becoming friends with each other. They learn the school traditions and songs, and they stay in these small groups, of males and females where they get to know each other on a much deeper level. So when you come to the start of the school year, what you used to always see at most schools is deer in the headlights. Like, holy cow. What am I going to do? And you’d actually lose a lot of students. Within the first 24 hours, most colleges I’ve worked at have lost, you know, probably 1% of their students because they just freak out. But what you see at schools that have this program is their messaging. After that ends, which is often in July, through August, they’re all like, I can’t wait to see you again.
Jeff Doyle [00:20:10]:
I wanna see you. And they get to campus, and they’re in all these little groups. And so we’ve facilitated a connection that that made them really excited to come back. And and we know the students who attended that based on the research we had done were much more likely to stay. So you’ve got some preschool things you could do. Now if you’re not doing either of those, you know, people talk about a welcome week or whatever that week is before school starts. And universities will often put on a bunch of events and have these sessions, which are all great. But you know what makes the biggest difference is if you do that with small group leaders.
Jeff Doyle [00:20:49]:
These students can learn I mean, we can learn a lot, but if we don’t feel like we’re cared for, or that we’re connected, it’s not gonna make a big difference. So if you’re gonna have these events, that’s great. But they they around those events, they meet with their small groups. And we have student leaders that facilitate that, and they ask questions. Hey. What did you learn? We’re gonna go to this party like an on campus dance party together. Now we’re gonna go to the spirit rally together. And so in the midst of going to these, you know, larger university events, which the research shows really don’t have an impact on student success.
Jeff Doyle [00:21:24]:
But by connecting the students in this little pod of students, they’re making friendships while going to these things.
Shiro [00:21:32]:
Yeah. I I’ve covered this question a a few times with some guests that specifically work in student retention. And one thing they learned in a lot of their studies was, like, trying to get, like, the best artist to come for their concert, like, the welcome week concert and investing a lot of money and time. They did that a couple years in a row, ran surveys. It it like you said, it it actually didn’t have an impact. And where students really were looking for was more connection to to faculty and smaller group organizations. And so what they did was, I believe, like you said, broke students into smaller pods, tried to find better student orientation leaders that were, you know, either juniors or seniors, and then they also tried to create more opportunities for students to connect with faculty even if they weren’t gonna be their professor. Right? But just getting a chance to know staff and faculty at the institution were priorities.
Shiro [00:22:25]:
And so, that’s right in line with what I’ve been hearing as well.
Jeff Doyle [00:22:29]:
Yeah. There was a study, the Purdue Gallup study. You can look it up. Came out in 2014 and 15, and they looked at over 300,000 people multiple years after college. And they said to these people, what was it about your college experience that had the greatest impact? And they compared the people who were loving their work and enjoying their jobs to those who were not enjoying their work, and not satisfied with what they were doing. And they they identified I think they called it, like, the big six. But these six variables differentiated people who were satisfied in their careers versus those who weren’t based on college. And so those those factors were people taught me that were excited about what they were teaching me.
Jeff Doyle [00:23:20]:
People cared about me at my institution. I had someone reach out and try to mentor me at my institution. I joined a student group at my institution, and I was able to serve in a leadership role at my institution. Those five things, in fact, if they did all 5, I mean, they’re they were just off the charts in how satisfied they were in their careers. And so in some ways, you know, it’s very rare to do post college analysis multiple years out. That’s why I really love the study. We can go back and think. You know, those students today, 10 years that graduate in 2024, the ones who did those five things, likely are doing very well in life.
Jeff Doyle [00:24:03]:
So how do we help that happen? Like you just described, what do we do now to create an environment where those five things happen?
Shiro [00:24:12]:
Yeah. That’s great. And I know in the past conversation, I just had a webinar around orientation and welcome week, and I know, Michigan Technological University, has an event called an afternoon in the town where they’re they’re a small college in a small town, and so they actually bring the students to, like, the main strip of town and introduce all the students to the local businesses, the business owners, some of the, key businesses downtown, like the bank and stuff. Because a lot of times, if you’re a freshman, it’s the first time you’re opening a bank. So, they make all these connections, and it’s one of the the most, upvoted events that they do during orientation and welcome week. And I’m wondering if since you’ve been at a many universities, you know, have you seen some great examples at larger scale, smaller scale, mid scale universities that have really helped create that community and, sense of belonging?
Jeff Doyle [00:25:07]:
In that case, what makes a difference is a shared experience. So, like, at Baylor, when we would get we would rent these buses, and we would drive on a 2 hour road trip to the place where Baylor was founded. And on the bus ride, we would do activities with them, you know, where they’re bonding. And, you know, like this year at Southwestern, we have something called Pirate Adventures where we’ve got 90% of the freshman class signed up, and all peep a bunch of people like me are gonna take him on adventures. I’m taking 1 or 2 buses or, vans to, water park. And, you know, the focus in my mind, like I’m telling you, isn’t like I need them to experience a water park is I want them to have fun with each other and build friendships. Other someone else is doing like a history tour of town. You know, I don’t know all the activities, but they’re going through a shared experience.
Jeff Doyle [00:25:59]:
This is why many schools that have great 1st year seminar programs will have their students go through a ropes course together. Again, it it levels the playing field and takes away, you know, people acting like they’re better than someone or their car is fancier or whatever it may be. It puts you all on an equal level and says, let’s let’s tackle this challenge together, which, creates a sense of hunger to connect with each other to help each other make it through that.
Shiro [00:26:27]:
Shared experiences. Yep. I I I just realized as I was taking a step back and listening to your comment, this whole conversation today, whether it’s around LinkedIn and building your person personal brand, is is all about forming connections and creating the right environment to do so. Maybe we need to go back and change the title because, it it seems to be the common theme of today, and I really like that.
Jeff Doyle [00:26:48]:
Go back and look at the Harvard study. Have you heard of the the longest the the oldest longitudinal study on human success? Definitely in our country, I think in the world. It was started John f Kennedy was in it. You know, it was a I don’t know how many, couple hundred people. And every so many years, they almost all died out now. They tested these people for all these health things and what they were learning and and and they just said, who’s gonna live the longest? We’ve got all this stuff. Who lives the longest? Do you remember what the outcome was?
Shiro [00:27:22]:
No. I do not.
Jeff Doyle [00:27:24]:
That’s exactly what you just told me. The people who live the longest weren’t the healthiest. You know, they didn’t have the highest degree of education. They weren’t the wealthiest. They were the ones who had the richest relationships with people around them. And you can see it. It’s a TED talk. It’s a book.
Jeff Doyle [00:27:43]:
I mean, Robert Waldinger is the guy, I think, that published it. But, basically, you know, if we have quality relationships in our lives, we will live longer and be more satisfied in life. And so, you know, at the you know, I would just say maybe we take that as a a point we could all walk out of here today with is how am I reaching out and fostering friendships with people that I I wanna invest in?
Shiro [00:28:09]:
Yep. And that can be on LinkedIn, or that can be in your student life role or student success role or counseling role. Yeah. It definitely applies across the board. Well, Jeff, I think we’re just at about time, but thank you so much for all of your knowledge, Sherry. I I definitely think there’s a lot of room for another episode here. I’m I’m wondering where our listeners can follow-up with you to learn more about what’s going on in your world.
Jeff Doyle [00:28:34]:
Sure. I mean, they can feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. They can go to that website, deep thoughts, h e d dot com, h e d standing for higher ed, or they can email me at jeff.doyle.923@gmail.com.
Shiro [00:28:48]:
Great. Well, thank you again, Jeff. Thanks for joining our show. It’s been a it’s been a fad to this conversation. Thank you.
Jeff Doyle [00:28:54]:
Thank you for all your work, man. Your website your, web, podcast is great, and I’ve enjoyed it. So
Shiro [00:29:01]:
Thank you.
