Blog Recap:
Hey there, Higher Ed Demand Gen fans! In our latest episode, Shiro had a vibrant chat with Robyn Lofton and David Poteet from New City. Spoiler alert: it’s not just about redesigning your website!
Right off the bat, we’re reminded of the magic that teamwork can bring to budgeting and project investments. David and Shiro laid out how a collaborative approach can seriously dial up those results. And then, Robyn brought in the real MVPs: enrollment leaders. These folks have front-row seats to student needs and experiences, making them essential players in web projects.
Ever tried herding cats? That’s what managing massive amounts of university content can feel like. David painted a picture of these complexities and emphasized how crucial it is to have a cohesive website that speaks directly to prospective students. Think about it – we want to reel them in, not send them running through a maze.
Here’s the kicker: transforming a website is a marathon, not a sprint. Quick fixes? Nope, not here. Robyn couldn’t stress enough how creating separate landing pages can backfire – like adding unnecessary hurdles for students. Instead, we need solutions that’ll stand the test of time.
Robyn and David didn’t just chat; they took us on a journey. Robyn gushed about her passion for impacting student growth, while David shared his evolution from design to human-centered design at New City. And speaking of human-centered design, it’s all about understanding who you’re designing for and ensuring it’s sustainable.
Ever thought about the different stages students go through? Robyn sure has, and she’s all about integrating CRM systems that genuinely support those stages. Miscommunication and misunderstood student needs? Let’s leave those in the past, shall we?
We also got practical advice: involve outsiders in testing and get insights directly from recruiters and counselors. Better yet, invite admissions leadership to break down the enrollment cycle for the web team. Building these bridges between teams really isn’t optional anymore; it’s essential.
Catch the episode for even more juicy details and connect with our stellar guests on LinkedIn or their site, insidenewcity.com. Until next time, happy website transforming! 🌟
Read the transcription
Shiro:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Higher Ed Demand Gen podcast hosted by Concept 3 d. If you like our content, please follow and subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple, or Google. My name is Shiro Hattori, and I will be your host today. And I’m very excited to start talking about how it’s not just a website redesign, it’s an opportunity to break down silos. And for this conversation, I’m looking forward to having David Poteet and Robin Lofton join us. David is the president of New City, and Robin is the director of enrollment strategy at New City. Welcome to the show, you 2.
David:
Thank you.
Robynne:
Thank you. It’s great to be here.
Shiro:
Yep. And I I think this is like like I was saying, the first time I’ve had 2 guests on, so I’m I’m this is a new territory for me, so this will be fun and interesting. So I do ask all my, guests this at the start. Please tell me what you love about higher ed, and maybe we’ll start with Robin.
Robynne:
Gosh. I love so much being a part of of a student’s journey. The the time, that sort of transition from secondary to postsecondary is is an amazing part of development and and where passions are formed, what that emerging adult is there, and to be part of that and watching that sort of growth space is is powerful. It is reaffirming. It is, just an amazing thing to witness, and it is what has kept me for the entire length of my career to be in that position to watch that growth is phenomenal. And to watch it over a period of time. Right? Watch the people you love grow and develop and bloom into alumni and adults who are leading amazing lives. So that I think that’s just something that keeps drawing me in.
David:
And I think for myself, I mean, I started my career in a design and communications role in higher education, and I just, I saw so much opportunity and and also, you know, need to to democratize and to really spread the the good news about how to use the web, for for engaging and and building bridges, helping people connect, in the higher ed space. And and I there’s just something about the the culture and and, you know, organization of of universities that has always been both challenging, you know, in some ways, but really enjoyable to to to work with, for us. So my father was a history professor and and, even so I’ve got a lot of educators in the family. And, so to be a part of those teams and to be able to help help, raise the bar for folks has been really encouraging and rewarding for us to be to be part of their mission. When when we when we team up with higher education, we feel like we’re joining their mission and and participating with them, and making making their mission, you know, more effective.
Shiro:
That’s incredible. Thanks for sharing that with me. And, yeah, it’s it’s great to hear both of you have, you know, roots working in house or in on higher ed teams to start your journey and career. So that’s fantastic. Can you tell us, you know, just a quick brief, about your background, and how you got started in your career? And maybe, David, more specifically for you around, you know, what New City does as well.
David:
Yeah. Sure. So I’ll go first. I mean, my background is more was in the design and communications as I said. And, I think in the late nineties, I I discovered human centered design, user experience, started doing more, professional development and training around that. And then, we I had started New City already at that point, but, we began in the early 2000 to just, invest heavily in building up more, skills expertise in that, making it part of our practice. Our first big, so so my background kinda morphed from being your I have a graphic design degree, and it moved into human centered design as a broader, broader area. So I’ll do when I, you know, when I am involved in projects still, I’m I’m doing research.
David:
I’m doing strategy and architecture, content strategy, service design, that kind of thing.
Shiro:
And is is that what human centered design is? Do you mind just defining it in your Sure.
David:
Sure. Well, I mean, human centered design is a broad concept, but it means that you’re you’re designing with an understanding of the people you’re for whom you are delivering an experience, whether it be digital or in person or what have you. And you’re also thinking about all the humans. You’re not just it’s it’s not just the end user, but you’re thinking about the the people who are caring for the people that you’re trying to serve. Right? So you’re you’re trying to create the whole system. It’s a systems approach to thinking as well. So you’re not just considering, you know, making things that are friendly or intuitive or easy, but you’re also trying to support an ecosystem that allows that to continue and to grow and be sustainable.
Shiro:
Thank you. And, Robin, do you mind going over a quick, intro of your background as well?
Robynne:
Yeah. Absolutely. I am, admissions born and bred. I, have been in higher education for 28 years, and 26 of those were spent, serving admissions and financial aid and student account teams. I have a similar story that a lot of folks do in enrollment where we, we’re a tour guide or we spoke on a panel in school. No one, right, no one trained to be an admissions officer kind of thing. And, I worked I’ve had the pleasure of working at 5 different distinctive institutions, working my way from that sort of admission counselor, to a senior level seat in in supporting of those teams. And it’s been, fascinating to see how everyone does things and and and who we’re serving and why we’re serving in those sort of things.
Robynne:
But my experience has been, directly in the trenches, in the enrollment trenches, specifically, on the West Coast.
Shiro:
That’s fantastic. Awesome. And so New City, right, they help you help redesign websites and update websites, and you have a long list of clients that you’ve worked within higher ed. And in our intro discussion, David, we talked about, you know, what approach to the higher ed website are you seeing, that’s working the best? Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
David:
Well, one of the things that, that we’d seen really for the last several years, some of our clients, what well, we’ve noticed already the the phenomenon of kind of a, often the enrollment folks were doing a bunch of digital initiatives to try to reach, engage students at different stages of the funnel, and they might be working with one set of partners to create landing pages, to run campaigns, that kind of thing. And then the folks in marketing communications and IT were often responsible for the main website, the main dotedu site. And, and they might be doing their own thing, you know, and they’re and we would we would often end up being engaged with those, the folks that are responsible for the main dotedu. And and enrollment would be sort of maybe a stakeholder that’d be brought in at some point and consulted a little bit, but there was often not a lot of overlap or collaboration. But we saw some of our some schools that we worked with and some that we didn’t. Just we saw some great examples where they were starting to, reach across and and build a collaboration understanding, develop shared understanding of each other’s goals and priorities, and and and, tear down the walls between those, you know, the the silos that you talked about at the beginning. And we’ve we have now been able to both with the folks that we work directly with and the ones that we kinda keep an eye on that we think are doing it really well, we’ve been able to see now the results of doing that for 3, 4, 5, 6 years of of really looking at the whole connected student journey and and developing strategy together as a coherent end to end strategy and trying to develop that that seamless experience for students and parents and, you know, obviously, students at all different, types, whether you’re talking about adult, you know, learners or graduate students. Graduate students are one of those audiences that are often still really quite under underserved in terms of just the the journey is, you know, it’s it’s, supported by every different, you know, department on campus, what have you.
David:
But but that, the the folks that have taken to like, they’re looking at their budgets together. They’re thinking about how they’re investing, so that they’re reinforcing each other, in their work, and and they’re just, I think, producing dramatically, you know, better results as because of that that that kind of, teamwork.
Shiro:
Got it. And and by results, do you mean, specifically, like, conversions of the website or conversion rates going up, or do you mean everything from, like, reach from organic reach? Like, what areas are you really focused on?
David:
Yeah. I mean, all of those things. I mean, Robin, you you please jump in. But, but we’re seeing certainly improved, app you know, request for information, applications, you know, kind of visibility into what’s going on at the top of the funnel, in the middle of the funnel, and being able to kinda connect those dots. But,
Robynne:
Yeah. No. I I just I think I would piggyback, on on those the idea of those silos in these projects. I think it’s really important when you’re bringing in, enrollment folks into these web projects. I have certainly been on I’d like talk about it as the receiving end, as an enrollment leader who’s gotten a new website and wasn’t involved in the process. Right? And you look and you’re like, that’s pretty. That’s lovely. I’m really excited to have a new website.
Robynne:
Gosh. It would have been really great if I had something that did a better job at telling this story. Or, gosh, man, there’s something missing here that I can’t really use it in the way that I had hoped, but bringing folks in. So as David was talking about these over time, New City having to help folks bring come to the table, what you see is not only just good content and structure and design, but the voices at the table who are directly responsible for those conversions and those, wooing those prospective students. Enrollment people are living field tested data. Right? They are the people who are talking, the school’s mission. They are navigating the website alongside prospective students. They are teaching from the website.
Robynne:
They have so much information. They are in the field hearing what students want, and knowing where the deficit is that they can’t quite point to. So bringing them in adds so much depth that they may not negotiate the entirety of a web project, but bringing them in and their insights at very critical points, I think, is is a misstep, that in a lot of projects. I think missing that opportunity is is is a loss. But bringing them in can really shape things, or your prospective students or your institution, you name it.
David:
And, Shiro, I would say, if I could add to that, that one of the areas that one of the things that will happen if if you don’t do this, what we often see.
Shiro:
I like this. Yep.
David:
If if the silos remain, what you know, part of the challenge is is this nobody’s fault. Right? But it is a it is a a challenge that you have to consider from a governance standpoint. If you’ve got a large university, and sometimes even just a small college, you can have tens of thousands of pages of content across these different you’ve got a university. It’s got multiple colleges, schools, labs, centers, departments. Got all of these things going on. And and if you have to sort of clean up or improve or raise the quality of all of those things in order to accomplish what admissions and enrollment need, that’s a that’s a mountain that, like, that may just be too much and no one wants to try to tackle that. Right? And so if if you are sitting in from the admission standpoint, you’re like, I need better content explaining the why, the the kind of the value proposition of our school, or I need better content describing our degree programs, etcetera, etcetera. It is often easiest to just go ahead and create, like, a stand alone admission site.
David:
Right? That’s the the your college experience or some kind of a a contained kinda walled garden. And and you can do that, and you can create this really beautiful presentation. It’s like a view book. Right? It’s a it’s the website equivalent of that printed view book. But the problem is Google Google doesn’t respect the walls of your garden, and, social media doesn’t. And and so the whole site does, whether you want it to or not, function as an admission site. And the parts of your site that you think, oh, prospective students or, you know, would never care about this part of the site. Guess what? They do.
David:
And they will go there, and they’ll find stuff in all kinds of places. Yep. And so it’s like if you don’t, you know, if you don’t, face take take on the elephant and decide, you know, how your whatever metaphor you wanna use, I’m gonna eat the elephant one bite at a time. Right. If you don’t find some way to begin to engage that larger governance question, start thinking about how do we build a a platform, a, a culture, you know, the kind of training and support structure, the the the guidance and curriculum for all of our content owners and start to over time change that. It can be changed. Right? So that your whole site really does function like an, you know, like an admission site. And one of our clients at Oklahoma State University, we first started working with them in, like, you know, 2016, 17 on this long term transformational journey.
David:
And and it’s been it’s been years now, and they’re finally getting, like, all the places, all the corners, all the parts, you know, are are fully on board with their their new design system, and and, and they’re they’re one of those who pioneered. They they they brought admissions and and marketing brand communications together, to work really closer together early on. We didn’t make them do that. Right? They did that. That was their their leadership. And but they were recognized last year as AMA Higher Ed Marketer of the Year. You know? Yep. And and that is an example of, the kind of results that they’re getting in terms of enrollment and what have you are an example of of that power.
David:
So, but it but it takes courage and takes, like, it’s a long term play. Right? It’s not something you’re gonna fix in a year. And a website redesign, you know, if you bring in a partner like us to help with a website redesign, we’re not gonna fix all of that in a year. Right? I mean, we could help point you in the right direction and and create curriculum and create, you know, government governance standards and and that sort of thing. But it’s it’s a long term play, but the momentum is incredible. When you when you get there, the the momentum really starts to build.
Shiro:
Definitely. And and I as a marketer who’s been in in my career for just around a decade now, I I I see it does take, you know, 2 to 3 years usually for websites to pick up any pace, and all that work you do today is is seen 6 months, year, year and a half later. And so Yes. I I completely agree. And I like your your take on, the landing page first, which is, like, the duct tape method versus, like, addressing the elephant in the room. Right? So, like, what I’m hearing is in your opinion in in higher ed specifically, the landing page to convert folks with limited information isn’t the right strategy, not only because maybe it doesn’t convert as well, but it it silos the department still. Is that right?
Robynne:
It’s not addressing the problem. Right? It’s so the problem is it and as an enrollment leader, I want that that landing I want that separate place because I’m missing something from the website. Right? Right. It’s born from need. That need to say something in a more, in a different way to to package the institution, in in a tighter voice to to serve up the things that I know from firsthand experience perspective students are asking for. So it’s born from that need, but it’s not addressing the problem. Right? So there’s a purpose that can be served still. There’s a valid reason for both of those.
Robynne:
But if you are doing it out of omission of for solving the problem, then, you are creating a barrier by that, actually. You’re creating an experience barrier for students. You’re creating pathway barriers for students. And even the most careful planning doesn’t have, you know, long term legs. Right? So, you know, that you know, the people who carefully implemented that may not be the same people that are around to see that it is growing, with your students.
David:
Yeah. So we would never say don’t do a a landing page, but it’s there’s there’s a place and and time for them. But, but just but we’ve you’ve got to do the hard work to start developing your whole web presence as a part of how you engage. Perspectives, faculty, perspective, students, perspective, any public audience that you’re trying to draw into your into your story.
Shiro:
That’s great. And and, David, that’s exactly why, you and your team at New City have started bringing on enrollment strategist like Robin. Is that right?
David:
That’s right. I mean, we realize that, you know, we’ve got a a bunch of, like, I forget, over 40% of our team are have worked in higher ed, but we were all on the the Marcomm and the IT side. And we’d have anybody who’d sat in that enrollment seat and live the enrollment story. And we we recognize that, like, we can think that we kind of understand it, and we talked through but, you know, Robin has schooled us, you know, tremendously.
Robynne:
Lovingly. Right?
David:
Lovingly. So, yeah, I mean, she’s just having you know, she’s she’s shaping how we’re thinking about every, you know, every part of the work that we do on the website, but then we’re she’s also bringing a lot of expertise in about how we can Mhmm. Support and and deliver, you know, slate CRM integrations, other kinds of, you know, enrollment specific, you know, needs for our for our clients. But it’s it’s radically changed how we think about the web work that we do.
Shiro:
That’s fantastic. And and, Robin, I’ll throw this back at you then. You know, what are some of the common mistakes that you’re seeing with content or UX on higher ed websites as you work with, you know, all these new customers with data?
Robynne:
Well, some of it is a result of those silos. Right? I think one of the most common mistakes I have seen is that there’s an absence of the student journey that is is it’s it’s just completely missing. We forget about the student journey. We forget about what brought them to this particular page. We forget about what tasks they were supposed to accomplish here, what they were, what mastery many conversations with clients, when we are getting into the weeds about content and should we use this, and we’re talking about this service. And and you’re like, well, when did you first use those words for the student? Oh, I don’t know. Surely, someone said that you need to go to your my such and such portal. Nope.
Robynne:
That might be the first time that student is hearing that language, but we are here on this page and we’re forcing them into a whole process that they have no idea about. So there is a need to remember where the student is at all times. Where are they in the process? Not just who is a frequent user of this page. Right? So it’s easy to say, well, if it’s an admitted student landing page, it’s an admitted student. But is this a student who has received an aid package? Is this a student who has paid a bill yet? Is this a student who set up an email? Is this a student who is trying to figure out what they need to buy from Target to, you know, start for start school? Right? Where are they in the process, and who have they brought along with them? Who’s asking, questions? That is so incredibly valuable. And then the content itself, like I said, you know, there’s there’s a language difference that we’re using sometimes where soon as a student crosses over the admitted threshold, now we’re using all internal, you know, cute words and things that we’ve come up with to to brand, new student activities. Well, they they don’t know those things yet. Or language like, where we’re touting I think we were sharing, in our earlier conversation about the language of of touting social mobility.
Robynne:
Right? Social mobility is the thing. This is so important. It’s so valuable. Yes. Except they don’t use that word. Right? Like, they’re not speaking that. They’re not. That doesn’t matter to them in that the context that we’re sharing.
Robynne:
So remembering where they are in that process, using language that matters most to them. This isn’t just an affinity for an age group. Right? It’s just where am I, the institution, getting in the way of the experience I want the student to have? We get very caught up in process and procedure and wall of text, that we haven’t actually read it ourselves with new eyes. Right? Like, we haven’t actually seen that, oh, what that doesn’t if I gave this to a 17 year old, would they even could they follow
David:
Or their parents. I mean, for their parents are trying to figure it out too.
Shiro:
What if you don’t have a Robin on your team and you like, how do you even go about this? Do you have someone who’s 18, like, go through your process? Like, what’s what’s a good way to tackle this?
Robynne:
Yes. You there are people in your lives. I there I I just had someone do this, this weekend, a parent at a school that I I I my daughter goes to. And she was like, do you know what this means? And that is an example. Like, she said gave me a flyer that the school produced and said, do you know what this means? This word right here, and she had circled it. And I was like, no. I actually don’t. And that’s to your question, that’s it.
Robynne:
You can do that. There is an outsider that you have access to, whether it is friend, partner, 17 year old, whomever, that you can and should always run your processes by. I, internally, would always run whatever content I wrote by, an international adviser, because I knew that there’s, a language acquisition and a language comprehension that isn’t always gonna be the same. So how might I make general admitted student content for all of my students that’s been vetted by all the ears that are, hearing and all, the eyes that are reading. And so I’ll run it by different folks. So you can you’ve got folks in your in your cadre of people around you, your circles. You can run your stuff by and ask, does this even make sense?
Shiro:
Don’t be afraid to ask.
Robynne:
No. No.
David:
And that’s, you know, part of our practice for years has been to do contextual like, we we we interview students and parents and other audiences. We interview them and talk to them or watch them while they’re trying to do the thing and ask them what what they understand about a process or how they’re trying to accomplish it. And that’s, you know, just staying close to the to the that’s that’s human centered design. You’ve got to take time to watch and listen. But what we didn’t have was the perspective of the people who are actually, like, living the the the running the process and really doing it from the organizational standpoint. And so Robins brought that to us. We understood a lot about the students, but there’s still there’s always and, of course, every, you know, generation of students is just constantly changing. I just watched my own 2 my own 2 children go through the process, and now they’re all in college.
David:
And and, it was great. Still, I I’ve been working in this field for a decade, and it was still super eye opening.
Shiro:
Yeah. Wow. That’s that’s crazy. Yeah. Maybe having kids and having your kids go through the process is is the best way to figure out if if your process is good or hard to understand. I had a question. So, imagine if, you know, not every institution, let’s say, a webmaster or web manager is is being tasked of a website redesign, and they don’t have the privilege of of working with the new city team. What are some good ways that they can help facilitate, tactically facilitate, meetings with enrollment or admissions? And to be a bit of a devil’s advocate, like, not getting like, getting them involved the perfect amount so that the project moves along at the pace they want, but also there’s involvement from enrollment admissions.
Robynne:
I think it’s, incredibly valuable to get in front of the people who are on the ground, the recruiters, or people who are having counseling appointments to ask what are students most curious about. What are the the you know, it’s the frequently asked questions, but really trying to follow what that student journey is. Someone who is recruiting is meeting students at different starting points in their journey. They are Mhmm. Maybe a a senior for a traditional incoming 1st year path or someone who is a returning adult who is working on this for over many years, right, thinking about it. So hearing from them what the kinds of questions that those students are asking about, I think, is something that is worth your time to do. That’s a worthy, conversation to have with that population, with with your recruiters. You may be at a school who has graduate recruiters or international recruiters or otherwise.
Robynne:
So finding a way to kind of manage all of that, but I do think it’s important to talk to the people who are having to carry with them the institution in a variety of different places and spaces and speak with confidence, speak with, passion, and speak convincingly about the value of the institution. Oftentimes, the words they use may not have made it to our marketing copy. The the ways in which that they are having to navigate sticky questions and and uncomfortable spaces is such great insight. So if you can do nothing else, that would be my my one vote. Getting in front of those people for whatever period of time, you will walk away with an just by the the sake of the conversation alone.
David:
The other the other thing I’d add to that is maybe inviting your admissions leadership, someone, you know, on the team to come and give a presentation to whoever is working on the website just to lay out here’s what the year looks like for us. Here’s the rhythm of our enrollment cycle. Here is how we think about our funnel. Here are the different stages. Here is where we’re sourcing. I mean, just even the idea that we go out and source names that we start recruiting. Right? That’s that can be a novel thing to web to people on the web team. Just what does that life cycle look like, and, what how are we measured? Like, what are what are the things that we’re paying attention to, you know, through the course of the year? And and and here’s some of the terminology that we use to talk about these things.
David:
We’re just you know, I guess they go through that, you know, raise your hand. It’s like, wait. What does that mean? What does what does melt? What is So that that, is one of the things that we’re really encouraging to build bridges where there are currently walls is just learning each other’s languages and starting to understand the pressures and the the priorities that are driving, you know, that that drive the how those both teams work because marketing Marcom has its own set of things. Right? Oh,
Shiro:
this is incredible. I’ve I’ve learned a lot already. I’m I’m wondering, we’re just at about time here, and I’m wondering if, you know, where our listeners could connect with you via LinkedIn or, you know, whatever channels you prefer.
David:
Yeah. We’re both on LinkedIn, and you can reach us, as well at our website at inside new city dot com. Our company is New City, but our domain is inside newcity.com. And you can find Robin and and I both on our team page, and, there’s contact information there.
Shiro:
That’s great. Well, thank you so much you 2 for joining the show today. It’s been great conversation, and, thank you to our guests for listening in.
David:
Thank you, Shiro. It’s been a real pleasure to to be part of the conversation today.
Robynne:
Absolutely. Thank you for having us.
Shiro:
Thank you.
