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Shiro Hatori
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the higher ed dimension podcast hosted by concept 3d. If you like our content, please follow and subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple, Google, wherever you’re listening to us. And if you’re on Apple specifically, please drop us a comment. I’d love to know what you think about the show. My name is Shiro Hatori, and I will be your host today. And today we will be talking about breaking down siloed campuses and for the conversation. I’m very excited to have Chantell Costner join us today. Chantal is currently serving as the marketing communications director at WSU Spokane and is also currently pursuing for PhD at Gonzaga University. Welcome to the podcast.

Chantell Costner
Hi, there. It’s good to be here.

Shiro Hatori
Great to have you. And I may say during the podcast was due just because I’m from Washington, and we said was due to WSU, but I noticed last time you your mate, you made sure to say WSU, I was like, Okay, I’m gonna try and follow the blueprint. But forgive me ahead of time, if I just straight up say Wazoo or sorry, yeah. I do love asking all my guests on the show. What do you love about higher ed Chantell?

Chantell Costner
Yeah, um, well, I mean, very selfishly, I love school and love learning. And so I didn’t actually vote when I started my career right out of college, expect that I would end up back in higher ed. I was I started in the nonprofit space. And I was doing communications and marketing work in that field. And I just kind of continued to find this pull back to the education environment. Something I think about the community, which I think is a theme that will probably emerge today a lot. The the community that is a university and a college campus is just unique and special, and provides the opportunity to learn in a variety of different ways about yourself about others about very technical things about very philosophical things. And so I personally, when I stepped started stepping more into that marketing and communication space, was really inspired by the fact that the work that I was doing at the time, which was in student affairs, had a profound impact on the student experience internally, right. Students knew about the resources that they had access to, because of the work that I was doing. And so I think the meaningfulness of it, the the ability to transform somebody’s life through the work that I was doing, was really grounding. And I think that’s been something that’s carried me through the work that I’ve done is, is that is that ability to contribute to that community in a really meaningful and positive way. So yeah, every time I have the opportunity to engage with colleagues across you know, here in Spokane, but then also across the country, at conferences and things like that, I think that tends to be the grounding force for a lot of us is that sense of community and that relationship with our students on our college campuses?

Shiro Hatori
Yeah. Just just some context for the audience. She can tell was that WSU Pullman, which is considered their flagship campus before, right. And that’s where that’s the story. You’re just telling, right? Yeah,

Chantell Costner
yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yah, I started off in Eastern Oregon, I was working at a nonprofit. And then I came north to WSU Pullman, worked there for about five years, went further north again, to Gonzaga University and was working for the School of Law for a couple years and then had this opportunity to step into this role here at Washington State University Spokane, which is just for those who familiar with the area, literally right across the river from Gonzaga University. So it was a wonderful opportunity to step into a new space in a new role, but also a chance to really come home again. It’s at this institution that I do really love

Shiro Hatori
it. You mentioned some conferences that you’ve been attending, what which ones do you have in the pipeline or which ones have you been to before that you’ve really enjoyed? Yeah,

Chantell Costner
well, ama higher ed is coming up. So that’s where you’ll find me next. I’m really excited to go to Chicago it’s been a while since I’ve been able to attend because of COVID and transitions and everything else that’s come with that but yeah, I always look forward to that opportunity. And then of course case, council for oh, I’m forgetting the acronym at this point. But ks Conference, which is for for development, advancement professionals, is also one of my personal favorites and I do enjoy being there and hopefully the spring I’m I get that opportunity to attend our regional.

Shiro Hatori
And when you say development opportunities do do they deal with, like from a business? Unit retention as well? Or is it more about it? Or like, tell me a little bit more about that?

Chantell Costner
Yeah, so case is a conference, the case conferences, which there’s a lot of them, there’s regional conferences, there’s the big ones that are more geared toward particular focus areas like marketing and communications, or but it’s development. So it’s fundraising and advancement, primarily alumni engagement, things like that. So I’m really more focused on the, the the later path for most of our customers are students. But AMA, of course, has a nice mix of recruitment, retention, development advancement. So there’s a lot of different. There’s a lot of different opportunities, I think, in higher ed. And that’s another reason why I love it. It’s just there’s so much to learn, and so much to write so much to learn.

Shiro Hatori
I will be at AMA, I just got that approval from my boss. So we can meet in person there. Yay. Yes. Yeah, that’d be great. Yeah, it’d be there. It’ll be my first time. I’m really excited to go there.

Chantell Costner
I know the countdown has begun.

Shiro Hatori
Great. Well, you know, going back a little bit more into the topic of the campuses and the flagship campus. Can you tell us a little bit more about WSU Pullman and its relationship with WSU? Can you know how everything fits into the picture?

Chantell Costner
Yeah, yeah. So I think the interesting part of Well, I’ll start with a little bit information. We can talk a little more philosophically. But so Washington State University is a land grant institution on the east side of Washington State. It was founded in 1890. So it’s been around a minute. And for most folks, they kind of joke, it’s like a little, it’s like a big university in the middle of a wheat field. It’s in a fairly remote part of Washington. For those who are a little less familiar with the geographic region. It’s pretty far away from Seattle. So all 40 It’s like right on the Idaho Washington border, and actually shares the border with the University of Idaho, which is just right on the other side. So it’s, it’s a large institution, really, for the state, about 17,000 students are enrolled. They’re mostly predominantly undergraduate students, though it is an r1 research institution. So pretty heavy research focus. I haven’t. Historically, of course, like as many land grants, it was focused on agriculture and agriculture related research. But it’s, you know, since grown, of course, and evolved and has pretty notable programs in engineering, communications, business, veterinary medicine, and a whole whole slew of really, you know, extraordinary experiences for our students. Fast forward 100 years, almost to the year. In 1989, the institution decided they want to establish some branch campuses around the state, and one of those was WSU Spokane, which emerged out of some other things that were going on within the within the community, right, we had a few programs that were starting to manifest around Spokane, including our nursing program, which was somewhat of a shared program with a number of other institutions in the area. And really, the vision for the campus was it would serve the needs of the community. So it was intended to listen to what the community needed and wanted from a workforce from a development standpoint, and provide programs that would complement that. So today, currently, the campus is really dedicated to the Health Sciences. And we have an enrollment of about 1500 students here. They engage in programs with three major colleges, a college of nursing or college of pharmacy, and our College of Medicine, which has an MD program. So it’s interesting that evolution has happened very quickly in about 30 plus a little under 35 years time. But it’s been an extraordinary thing for our community. Because for most folks that aren’t familiar with Spokane, it is like the major urban center for Eastern Washington, Eastern Oregon, northern Idaho and into even Montana. So we have a big healthcare system here. And because of that, many people from around the region come to receive care in Spokane, from our hospitals here and our specialists. So it seems like a very natural fit to have really awesome programs to support that in the health sciences.

Shiro Hatori
That’s fantastic. And on this podcast, you know, we usually talk strategically and even tactically around, like how to market students, how to gain more awareness, you know, get really more tactical, but like, what demand gen is at its core is creating demand or capturing demand. And like, just from an entire institutional perspective, you’re basically creating like, an institution that capturing some of the man that already exists. Yeah, the need in the community for this, this health sciences education. So I think that’s fantastic. And I love that we can get on this point, because I think it goes to the very, very top of like, the fundamentals of marketing and demand generation.

Chantell Costner
Yep. Yeah, absolutely.

Shiro Hatori
It’s really cool. You know, in our prior conversation, when he told me about, like, you don’t need an escape that actually wants you to stay as a whole and specifically in Washington. So thanks for educating me on that, because they kind of connected the dots there as well. Great. Yeah. Yeah.

Chantell Costner
I mean, obviously, most folks have heard of University of Washington, right in, in contrast with WSU, and University of Washington has an extraordinary Health Sciences program. It’s ranked like many of them are ranked some of the top in the nation, particularly amongst public institutions. So some people wonder like, Well, why do you need Why do you need WCS programs? And the answer is we’re community based. So we know that we are inclusive, we’re working to build environments and programs where our students can go out and serve the needs of the community at a very real level. And that’s really, I think, a key driver in understanding how we’ve situated ourselves thinking about that marketing piece, how we’ve situated ourselves and understand what our customers will say, broadly speaking, need and want and what will work within the context of our environment?

Shiro Hatori
And I think one interesting thing, I think I just remembered you saying was that in when you in education and health, oftentimes after you graduate, you stay locally, right? And so like, if students are all going out of state U DUB article, right, and there aren’t as many schools in Washington, Oregon, or if they go to California, they end up staying like where their local communities or where their classmates were. Right. And I thought that was an interesting observation, because I do see that happening, actually. So

Chantell Costner
yeah, yeah, it is. It’s it’s a powerful thing. If we think about the mission of higher education and our our goal of educating students to make our world a better place. Right. So what does that what does that mean and look like? And how are we reflecting that in the work that we’re doing and the operations that we have? And and the story we tell? Right, I mean, that does boil down to that communications and marketing piece too.

Shiro Hatori
Great. Switching gears was very closely related here, talking about, you know, schools and branding here. How do you stay connected with WSU flagship, a Pullman while still marketing your branch and your identity? Okay. Well,

Chantell Costner
yeah, yeah, this has been an interesting, an interesting conversation that I think has been happening even more and more over the last year and a half, as our institution has been working through a brand positioning strategy within an external consulting firm. And, you know, I think one of the things it’s become really apparent to me in that is that so much of our identities as these branch campuses, right, that that language that we’re using around like these, the little satellites that are that are out in the world doing our thing is that their identity is so much more grounded with the communities that they serve. So instead of asking people to continuously come to us and understand how that impacts our brand and the conversations we’re having around the institution, it’s, well then who are we in the context of the place that we’re at? So here in Spokane, right, our identity is really driven by the Health Sciences. Our students do not come to this campus to do all four years of their undergraduate degree. The vast majority transferred in from either other places within WSU system or from a community college system. local or regional and or their graduate students or professional students. So they’re coming to us for the for the furthering their education, but they finish their undergraduate degree. And that very much impacts who we are the kind of the kind of programs that we have the kind of activities that we are creating for our students to engage in So in turn to me, if you if you think about brand in terms of authenticity, who you are and how that differentiates you, that has to be part of the equation when we talk about this greater identity at WSU. And we’ve got a campus in the Tri Cities, and our Tri Cities campus is heavily invested in first generation students, they have a lot of first gen students that come to that campus more so than many others. So once again, right, you see a different kind of scaffolding and programming and conversation that needs to happen there to ensure that, though, if those are your if those are the audience, if that’s the audience that you’re speaking to, what do they need to know about the institution so that they feel like they’re informed about coming to the institution and making the choice? Okay, so that’s like the philosophical framework, but in so it starts coming back to being in practice with that. And I think the real challenge with being a larger institution, particularly one that’s geographically dispersed, is that you have to understand, like, where are the pieces of the brand that inform that? Where are the pieces of the brand that have to be flexed? And where are the pieces that have to be really solid? And I think we talk often conceptualized brand in very visual ways, you know, we think about the logo and the colors, and the, and the, you know, how are we making our website look nice and functional, and, and those are all very important things too. But I think where we have to, we have to be, we have to be flexible within that if we know that our audiences are varied across a wide array of geographic spaces, or ages, or demographics, or any, you know, any number of factors. So that we can assess not just how we’re implementing brand, but then how brand is evolving over time and manifesting in new ways that are reflective of where the institution is heading. So I think about it as like the structural framework that allows us to be really creative, right? That allows us to have the constraints we need, but then also can be manipulated in the way that’s most productive to meet our goals as an institution. And I think that’s a challenging conversation. Because when you put together a brand guide, you want to be like, here are all the little doodads, you need to be successful. You’re those grounding words. And ultimately, right like, that becomes challenging if you don’t necessarily think about that notion of process, and how how organizations and brands continuously evolve over time.

Shiro Hatori
Again, I know kind of going back to a conversation we had before this recording, you said something really interesting that I thought would be a great soundbite, which is marketing communication teams need to be basketball players on basketball courts, not golf players on golf greens. Can you explain a little bit more what you mean by that? Yeah,

Chantell Costner
yeah. So I mean, I think about the culture predominantly in higher education, structurally, it tends to be a space where we’re really focused on individual achievement. Um, you know, you think about a faculty member or somebody who’s an administrative role, there tends to be a lot of effort and energy put toward, you know, manifesting individual outcomes and outputs. And, and there’s, you know, there’s, there’s a lot to be said for that, right. Like that. That’s not That’s That in of itself is not the issue. I think the challenges though, if marketing comms teams are placed in an environment, where that is indeed, kind of the norm. It requires us to think really critically about how we’re conceptualizing our teams, our ways of working, the framework through which we’re seeing the brand, and identity and commute and then ultimately, how that informs the tactical approach very tactical approach to how we’re managing marketing communications. So, you know, I guess there’s To that end, if you think about the metaphor, right? You have a golf team, let’s say, but they’re really out on the green individually, working as their own individual silo, playing the game scored by their own individual merits and efforts. And what we have to be I think, personally, this is my philosophy as marketing comms professionals and its marketing comms teams is we have to be basketball players. We have to be communicating all the time. We have to be understanding the different strengths and the different the different way ways our teammates are showing up on the court, we need to understand where we all headed in this like this. The goal here is a team goal, and we’re going to need everybody on the court to achieve that. That I think is a different paradigm. I’m from some of the paradigms that have informed higher education operations and management over the years. And so I really work with my team. And then this comes back to kind of that siloed newness to try to break down through those silos and say, No, we gotta be playing on a basketball court, we can’t just be working in this kind of individualistic, like, I got my little thing over here, you got a little thing over here, we’re just going to hopefully meet in the middle at some point hash out what needs to be done, it’s got to be a lot quicker. And, and when I say quicker, I don’t mean, like, we got to, like, totally clip things long, because sometimes that they can our structures, but we do have to be much more responsive, I think, to the needs of our system and the needs of, you know, the work that we’re doing that, obviously expounds beyond the scope of just our office. And sometimes that’s a lot and you can’t always sit in that. But I think about that often as we navigate the challenges here and in higher education.

Shiro Hatori
Yeah, that makes sense. And it’s almost like, the question is to state because, you know, the, I think the metaphor applies to like, a marketing team in general. But then now you have this added difficulty of also being, you know, being a part of flagships and being a branch campus. That’s also another, I think, place where this metaphor can be applied is like, kind of working together. Yeah. Brand within all the WSU campuses. They’re almost at it. But yeah, like, you know, working together the entire brand, or all the campuses.

Chantell Costner
Yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s challenging for sure. Yeah. Yeah, it’s, I think we’re a decentralized model, I should share that for listeners are familiar with that decentralized models typically are, they can be really good because you have people embedded in each of the areas and in a highly dispersed organization that’s really valuable. The challenge, though, is that with a decentralized model is it’s easy for pieces of that system to kind of spin off into their own thing, especially if there’s not lines of accountability built in. So I think that is where that comes back to the basketball metaphor of, we do have to really think of ourselves as partners and you know, a team on a larger scale, so that we can ensure that we’re really all collectively moving the institution in the direction that we’re that we’re all collectively aiming aiming for.

Shiro Hatori
Definitely, yeah, it makes sense. I play tennis in high school. You could also interchange golf players or tennis players, by the way. I play tennis, I played singles out. Whenever I won, we would score points to our entire team to beat another high school. Right, but I was still playing by myself on the court. Right, this metaphor actually hits pretty home with me. So nice. I did have a question. So you mentioned culture a little bit earlier, right about creating, you know, what are you doing to really mark your branch, and one example you gave me was like you’re building cultures of creativity with your team in your, your campus? And I think you’ve developed a few programs for that, if you don’t mind sharing some of that work with us.

Chantell Costner
Yeah, yeah. So the the notion of a culture of creativity is this idea that, one, we’re really focused on ensuring that we’re giving ourselves space for the emergence of new ideas and new ways of thinking and working within the context of, of higher education. And, you know, I think that this, this can really manifest in some very tactical ways, right? I think about it is very much team culture and how we’re building trust and offering people space to have the freedom to do what they need to do to get the job done. But I also think about it as a mindset to helping us navigate some of the restraints that we are an constraints that we’re faced with in higher ed, which primarily among them being budget, and so we don’t like here, we don’t have a ton of money to work with. So how are we how are we talking about WC Spokane, in the community? is really an important question that we’re faced with. If we No, we can’t, you know, invest heavily in sort of that general brand awareness advertising all the time. Are there spaces where we can show up and be present that are really meaningful for the community, but then also engage us in dialogue with the community around, you know, how are how are we leading into spaces around education and workforce development? So it’s, it’s it’s part I Think trust building an ally ship and being advocates for the needs of others within our organization, and responding to those needs in ways that are strategic and constructive. But then also I think about it as being very people focused. You know, I, I, there’s, it’s interesting to me that there’s kind of this. There’s been historically in the last probably 3540 years, there’s real push for innovation in organizations, which is great. That’s important. And it’s typically systematized and it’s not necessarily a framework around how do we provide people with the space that they need and the support that they need to actually do that? To be creative, and the creativity leading to innovative solutions? I really try to come at it from that perspective of more of a people first approach.

Shiro Hatori
Do you have any like specific examples, I think you might have shared one, one or two, like some of the things you’ve done at WSU Spokane, and they like, Community Marketing and other things you built like a summit program? I think it was called wake up with research. Yeah. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about those? Like, yeah, that’d be great.

Chantell Costner
Absolutely. So um, a couple of the things we’re really doing and coming back to that community piece. These might seem really simple, right? They might seem kind of like, oh, that doesn’t, it’s not totally innovative. But it actually it’s very impactful, which I think is the importance of evaluating, you know, as marketing comms folks, we need to evaluate what we’re doing and say, Okay, this might seem very simple, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not impactful. So we’re heavily engaged with a number of community organizations, things like our chamber of commerce, we have several of them in the region here. We are members of all of those organizations, and we show up to meetings and we show up to events and our chancellor is present, we have key leadership that are present at those events. We’ve, we’re building, we’re working through our strategic plan right now. And one of the things that’s in there is a continuance of that idea where we’re really starting to encourage members of our leadership team, as well as even just members of our faculty and staff to engage in community in meaningful ways, whether it’s sitting on boards, or being active members in in nonprofit organizations, or whatever that might be. And obviously, you know, this isn’t something where we’re saying, you know, hey, you need to do this just so you can be there. It’s how is this the things you’re passionate about aligning with your work here? And how can those things inform what we’re doing right. So I think about it as a conduit for dialogue. And really providing us with a sense of what’s going on in the community, what is the community hearing and seeing, are there things that we could be doing better based on that feedback. So that’s just like one kind of broad base example, a little more specific. This team has been working on a program over the last couple years called wake up with research. And it’s a virtual. It’s a virtual event that we do every once a semester, it’s kind of ebbed and flowed, depending on availability of our of our staff. But it’s it’s a one hour in the morning activity event, I guess people tune in, they tune in on YouTube. And we bring together three or four researchers from around the WSU system around a topic. And they just share in quick, simple terms, their research and what they’re finding, you know, about a relevant topic. So we just this week did wake up with research, and we focused on sleep and health. And we were sponsored by Alaska Airlines, we had people talking about the impact of travel on your sleep performance and sleep health, we had individuals talking about that and how it impacts athletes, talking about sleep patterns, sleeping indigenous communities, and how, you know, different different factors and influences in within those cultures and communities. So it’s, it’s so fascinating. We get people tuning in all across the region and the state to learn about the work that is happening at WSU, but then how it very meaningfully translates to what, to their own personal lives. And I think that’s the piece that’s really exciting is as an r1 institution, we have tons of research, but oftentimes people don’t necessarily know what’s happening. And we can really talk specifically about that health angle and bring people together.

Shiro Hatori
What I’m really hearing is like, you know, it’s like, it’s kind of like, I don’t know if there’s a category or if it’s authentic marketing, right? It’s like sharing what you’re literally researching at your institution, creating a community or a distribution channel for that information, which is the summit that you have called away Make up with research and then a lot of people tune in. And then they’re, you know, from all different parts of community. And now they’re able to learn more about the business. And the Health Sciences provides as well. So it’s kind of expanding that brand intuition as well as do my hair in that right.

Chantell Costner
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And making that really tangible for people. I mean, I think we’re faced with headwinds right now around. What is the value of higher education? What? Why is that important in our communities? You know, the Edelman Trust Barometer has indicated flagging trust, right. I think the interesting thing about that is that when you present that kind of information to people, they’re like, oh, oh, no, this is great. Like, this is important. And I find it interesting or valuable to me in my own very personal life. So to me, it’s almost like that pushing against the notion of the ivory tower, like, No, we need to be accessible. We need to be we need to be here for people. It isn’t just about us pushing, pushing, pushing, like, look at how great we are, look at how great we are. It’s no, let us show you what we’re doing for you. And I think that shifting some of that focus, and that lens is really important, as we think about kind of the longevity of our institutions and our current and our current market.

Shiro Hatori
Have you started Have you thought about starting a podcast at WSU Spokane?

Chantell Costner
In my copious amounts of spare time. That idea around for sure. Yeah.

Shiro Hatori
I’m gonna have Kate young on from Purdue, she is pretty much the owner and main manager for this is Purdue, which is their official campus podcast, official produce podcast, right? They have other schools that do their own thing, but she’s gonna be on the show. And I think you have those and like, they also share stories about research at their school about different I mean, they’re out there big STEM school, and so they’ll share fascinating thoughts and professors that are also gotten a space or all these things, but they’re sharing things that you know, they’re what’s happening on campus, right, even though the research and the science perspective, right, using that. educational marketing, like we just talked about as being an awesome,

Chantell Costner
great. Yeah, that brand building piece is is awesome. It’s

Shiro Hatori
yeah, she’s reached like 2 million views in January. That’s great.

Chantell Costner
That’s incredible. Yeah. And produce the powerhouse with with the work that they’re doing. So I’ll have to tune in.

Shiro Hatori
Absolutely. Yeah. Great. Well, we’re almost at time. But I did want to ask you, I know you were talking a little bit about future state, right. What do you think about marketing in higher ed in 2024? And beyond? Like, what are some shifts that you think need to happen in the sphere? What are you seeing just any predictions?

Chantell Costner
Predictions, I’ll look into my crystal ball. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think we’re we’re faced with some really substantial headwinds. And I think, I think that one thing that can really support us and navigating that is a couple of things. I think we, as always just need to continue to invest in our marketing communications teams. They really are the conduit for how how people are learning about our institutions are there they’re the conduit for how we’re bringing in new students. They’re involved with that process, right. They’re the conduit for how we’re engaging with our, our donors and our alumni. So I think about how important that work is, and how, you know, so many of our offices were designed or our operational processes were designed. And they’ve sort of been added on to over time, but there hasn’t been necessarily like a critical look about what what are we doing now? What do we need to be doing in the future? So I think that that will be very important for institutional success in the in the future. You know, I think we’re, we also have to come back to the reason we’re here, right, and really get check ourselves around what what is it that what is the purpose of higher education? And I think that maybe that looks a little, I think there’s some grounding elements to that. But I also think that looks a little different, depending on the institution, right, and it’s mission and vision for it. And ultimately, that should inform some of the work that we’re doing from a brand perspective from a marketing perspective from an outreach perspective. And, and I think that that’s authentic to that’s authentic to us, if we come back to that which is ultimately what is such a powerful driver in the differentiation of our institutions from one another. You know, ultimately, the I am really grateful the people that were We’re involved with the founding of WSU Spokane had a powerful vision for serving the community and being responsive to the community. And because of that, I think we’re in a wonderful space to continue that work. And I’m very grateful for that. And my hope is that other institutions can kind of come back to that, those roots in that sense of self recognizing where where there’s maybe inequities in that space, recognizing where there’s work to be done from an inclusion perspective, and recognizing where that could take us in the future. And I think that that’s an opportunity for reflection, but also an opportunity for for growth as well.

Shiro Hatori
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on that. I’m actually talking to someone right after this call around inclusion and admissions process. So there you go. Yeah, have it? Yep. Well, I’m wondering where some of our listeners could follow up with you or follow you see what you’re up to any sharing of your personal or institutional days or call to action here? Yeah,

Chantell Costner
course. Feel free. I’m always happy to connect with people on LinkedIn. I would send people to my twitter slash x account. But it’s been a minute since I’ve been really active on here. So I won’t send people to that dead end. But by all means, Chantal Koster, I’m on LinkedIn, I’m always happy to connect and message and chat. That tends to be a place where I really enjoy engaging with folks all across the industry and GAAP, it’ll be lovely to see some some familiar faces and meet some new people at ama higher ed. So feel free to hop in and introduce yourself.

Shiro Hatori
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. And thanks that audience for tuning in. And I can’t wait to meet you in person. And I mean, that’d be gonna be great.

Chantell Costner
Yes, it’ll be awesome. Thanks so much. All right.

Shiro Hatori
Thank you

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