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Shiro Hatori
Hello, everyone, welcome to the higher ed demand gen podcast hosted by concept 3d. If you like our content, please follow and subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple, Google or wherever you’re listening to us. And if you’re in Apple specifically, please drop us a comment, we’d love to understand what you like about the show. My name is Shiro. And today we will be talking about the first 90 days as an executive director in marketing and Enrollment Management. And for that, I’m really, really excited to have Sarah McMaster join us. She is the executive director of marketing and Enrollment Management at Champlain College Online, which is a private college in Burlington, Vermont. She also helps on the side develop curriculum at actually several universities. So, you know, she’s both a teacher and a director as well. Welcome to the podcast, Sara.

Sarah McMaster
Thank you, Cheryl. I’m really excited to be here.

Shiro Hatori
It’s great to have you. And as an icebreaker, I do ask all my guests, Sarah, what do you love about higher ed?

Sarah McMaster
I, you know, my favorite thing about higher ed, is it and this probably sounds a little corny, and hopefully other people have given you this answer. But for me, it really is the mission, everybody that I’ve ever worked with, in higher ed, we’re here for a reason, you know, either we kind of fell into higher ed and never left, which is my case, or, you know, just knew that that was how we wanted to make a difference in the world. So I think people that work in higher ed, are mission oriented, you know, just as a as a way of being. And it’s a really wonderful environment to work in from that aspect. Everybody is rowing in the same direction, and contributing to, you know, the the greater good of society through education. And that’s really important to me. So that’s my favorite thing.

Shiro Hatori
Thank you, thanks for sharing that. So last time we spoke, sir, I think it was, you know, late spring, and you hopped on an introduction call with me, and you know, you just started your position. So we thought, hey, why not? Let’s check back in in a few months. And it’ll be actually a great way to talk about this topic, which is, you know, what is the first 3060 90 look like for someone in your shoes? What’s the experience been like, so far? Can you share us a little bit more about, you know, anything you’ve learned, and your recommendations, you give both positive and negative?

Sarah McMaster
Definitely, it’s been a whirlwind. It’s been exciting, it’s been challenging. And that’s what I signed up for. So I’m really, you know, loving, loving that. More, most of what I’ve learned so far is, well, a couple of different kinds of areas. One is you’re learning a new organization, right. And at a leadership level, that’s something you have to do relatively quickly. You’re in a position of authority you you need to make decisions and things of that nature. So that’s been a real priority is just learning Champlain learning about, you know, what, what makes us special? What makes us unique? What are the kinds of programs that we have? What are the kinds of students that are our best fit? So that’s certainly been a priority. And then more on the management side, you know, I’ve I have teams that are representing marketing, representing enrollment management, representing our admissions processes. So those are teams that are sometimes organizationally grouped together, and sometimes not, depending on the on the organization. So that’s a little bit of learning for the teams in terms of okay, this is my sister team, what does that mean? And so I’m very team focused team oriented around those transitions. Anytime you have a change in leadership, or even just in in team, you know, people come and go, that’s a transition for everybody. Right? So I need to, I’ve needed to be really cognizant of what was it like before I was here, what were the norms? What were the expectations? What were the things that were priorities? And while some of those things might shift, I’ve been very focused on inclusivity and transparency, and because I know that these teams have gone through a lot in terms of change before I came on board, that’s really guided my philosophy on how I’ve approached that 3060 90. So one of the first things I did was to not do anything I actually spent and this was a wonderful gift that my supervisor gave me is that I really had an opportunity to just shadow and listen and learn and kind of as we call it, drink from the fire hose for a good couple of weeks where, you know, I wasn’t in a position where I had to, you know, make on the spot decisions without the information that I needed because I was simply too new. So that was a really great thing that was a Luxury that I had. So I was able to just kind of take it all in, get my feet under me start to do that learning start to meet and build relationships with not only my my own teams, but our other key stakeholders in in the college. And that really gave me the ability to start stret scratching out priorities for moving forward. I was also able to, and this is not even something that I ever wrote down or, you know, circulated around, but just kind of put together that 3060 90 plan, what do I want to accomplish in those first 30 days? What’s what’s reasonable to accomplish in the first 30 days at any new institution. And then again, back to really focusing on the teams, I wanted them to know who I was, and what to expect from me, not only as a leader, but in terms of our approach to marketing, our approach to enrollment, our approach to admissions policies, you know, so one of the first things I did was set those kinds of expectations of what are my values? What am I bringing to the table, but also just as equally? What are the values and the the environment, which I’m the new person coming into, and making sure that there’s a good balance between what I want or need or think and what the team that are, that are already teams that are already here that have already been doing the work, you know, what are they bringing to the table. So it was a really great opportunity to kind of level set and share and align on expectations. And so we did that in in a formal way. And I set up quarterly, like strategic meetings. So it’s real easy, when you have long term plans or strategic plans to kind of get so mired in the day to day that these long term things that you’re not chipping away at every day in a meaningful way, they can kind of slide off the back where you put that, you know, strategic plan on the shelf, and there, that’s where it dies. And I really wanted to avoid that. So I really have carved out dedicated time for the teams to all get together, we do everything, all all of the teams together. And, you know, some of the longer term plans that we have, this is dedicated time to keep ourselves accountable to each other, that we’re making progress on, you know, whatever those long term plans are. And I also made sure to talk really early on in the process about change management, you know, things will change, but they’ll be input, I am not a kind of come in and make util unilateral decisions kind of person. So I wanted, again, to just communicate what my expectations are and what what are your expectations team in terms of change management? How do we want to handle you know, when we do make a decision to pivot on a strategy or to create a new role, those kinds of things. And so again, just being really transparent, really upfront, and very inclusive. That’s my style. And so it’s, it’s worked for me.

Shiro Hatori
That’s amazing. And in, in those 90 days, or it’s probably more like 180 Now, or have you made some shifts to the team? Have you, you know, created connections between like, missions and enrollment and different teams to align, you know, better? Have you sought out a new position? Because you saw there was a gap? Like, what are some of the changes you made? And why?

Sarah McMaster
Yeah, great question a little bit is the short answer. But I’ll give you the long answer, of course. So far, I’ve been treading lightly, I wanted to really make sure I had enough information and enough understanding and enough relationship to make any changes. So we’ve done very little in terms of, you know, kind of organizational changes. But what we have done is identified and started working on what I would call the less sexy kinds of projects that are really what helps a team run efficiently. I’m a very big, I’m very oriented around what I call housekeeping like how do we share files? How do we set meetings with an agenda? How do we name projects, like things that are very easy to just kind of gloss over and do in the moment, I actually find that it’s really worth the time to formalize some of those things. And so we’ve spent time on Team communications, you know, do we have a dedicated, you know, teams or slack or Google Chat, you know, whatever your tool is, and what are our expectations for that tool? What do we use for email versus chat versus something else? What do we do for like one of the example I just gave, we had disparate files. We’re a Google organization. So we had Google files, you know, shared all over the place from these different teams. And so we’ve also taken on a housekeeping project of centralizing and organizing all of our files, so that when we do have new staff come on, there’s, you know, it’s easier to onboard them and and there’s more structure around these things. So, again, easy to kind of just gloss over and not do that. But I’ve really found that those are things that make a difference. Just recently, now that I’m like you said, over a more like 180 days, we’ve taken on some additional long term projects at that strategic level. So we’re looking at refreshing and updating a three year marketing plan, putting together an enrollment management plan and taking a look at some of our enrollment processes and policies to say, Okay, where can we make improvements, we’re a very dynamic and agile division within Champlain College. And so we’re always, you know, anything can be put on the table in terms of discussion and assessment. So we’ve done some of that as well. Let’s see, what else have we done, because of some, you know, staff comes and goes from time to time, especially in admission, there’s some high turnover roles that are associated in that area. So I have because of normal turnover, had the ability to rethink a couple of positions, and make some updates there that were done very inclusive with the team, again, getting their input, making sure that everybody was on board ahead of decisions being made, things like that. And then the last thing I’ll mention about kind of bringing the team together and making changes, is my approach to budgeting is also very open and transparent. So this varies from institution to institution. But as as much as I can operate within, you know, expectations from a budget standpoint of sharing information I do. So another new thing that the team that that’s new for the team is again, meeting all together, and walking through the budget and, and using that as an opportunity to align and affirm on our priorities, right, how you spend your money is really what you prioritize. And that’s not something that I want to ever be doing kind of behind the curtain. So that’s another way that we’ve kind of used our team dynamic and input and saying, you tell me what’s important, and make sure that that’s reflected in how we spend our annual budget. And that’s another thing that we’ve done, that’s new.

Shiro Hatori
That’s really interesting. I, when I switched actually organizations to constantly, like budget was one thing that was a lot more transparent. And I really appreciated that because, um, that’s for everyone that works here. You know, our company budget is pretty is open. And I really, again, appreciated that. And I think you’re doing something great, because you’re setting your team up for success for their future, because, you know, they’ll be comfortable around talking about numbers around budget, which is, if you’re siloing, that information as a leader or manager, like they’ll never get that portion of the training or experience. And so I think that’s one of the huge levers it takes to move up in a careers is to start talking about budget, especially in marketing. And so being able to be, you know, getting a taste of that early on is huge. I think so that’s, that’s impressive that you’ve done that. I know, you know, we talked a little bit about goals. How have some of your goals shifted, you know, you could talk about your, your long term or your short term, I know you’re doing these micro adjustments with notes of the folder shares, these are all, you know, small moving pieces towards a longer Northstar. And I’m curious, you know, what those notes stars and goals are for you.

Sarah McMaster
Sure. So for mine 3060 90 plan, like I said, it wasn’t particularly formalized, but I did have a plan in mind and my North Star is that my teams are thriving, that’s really it that they’re thriving, and that they have clear priorities. And so that’s what I’m aiming towards, kind of at that team level. Of course, we have other strategic goals, we have enrollment goals, you know, we have marketing goals that we’re, we’re looking to hit. And some of those were available and already established when I when I got to Champlain and others were ones that we were able to put together ourselves internally as a team, but my first 30 days, I really concentrated on meeting people. So I spent most of my time just, you know, tell me what you do. Tell me about your area, tell me about your department, that kind of thing. And just learning our systems, you know, all the things that everybody has to do. So the first 30 days, we’re very much just kind of getting getting my legs under me in that 30 to 60 when I was kind of able to, you know have better context and understanding of, you know, the state All just across the college, my goals for the 30 through 60 kind of period were quality time with my teams. So I went from focusing on the college as a whole to my teams, sitting with them shadowing them on their jobs, asking questions, you know, what do you do on a day to day basis? What are your challenges, those kinds of things, finding out not only about them as individuals, but about their day to day. One of the first projects that we took on after in that time period was a comms audit. So how are we communicating to our prospects and our students? So we had a lot of different communication streams of courses any college or university does. And what I wanted to know intimately was, what is that picture? If I’m a student, if I’m coming through the marketing funnel, you know, in in an enrollment space? What does that experience look like? How many different offices are calling, emailing, texting, chatting, whatever it may be? And that’s ongoing, we haven’t completed that work, but it is work that we are doing so that we can then make adjustments. Like I said, everything is something that can be put on the table and assessed and gain consensus around is this good as it is, or does it need to change? During that 30 to 60 day period, as I mentioned, before we started recording, we had a big project that we were taking on and that was partnering with a new marketing and enrollment vendor. So that was that was a huge priority. And and that was part of the strategy of okay, let’s let’s start that project, let’s put that in, into into full swing. And that has since just wrapped up a few weeks ago. So that was definitely a you know, check box, something that we accomplished was a big strategic change in our enrollment processes. And of course, in that 30 to 60 day period, I also continue to do meet and greets, because one month was definitely not enough. And then in the last period that 60 to 90, that’s when we really started to you know, pull some of those levers. And we also had our first strategic level meeting. So that was our chance to say, Okay, we know each other well enough to kind of put our cards on the table and say, you know, what are our what are our norms and expectations. So we did a lot of expectation setting and started to talk about our strategic plans, the marketing plan and the enrollment plan. And we started those projects, just in terms of a kickoff. So those were very tactical and kind of day to day and strategic things that we’ve handled in those first 90 days, and obviously extending beyond there. But really, that Northstar goal is that the team is thriving, and how you know, how do I measure such a thing as a team that’s driving?

Shiro Hatori
I was just about to ask, I was like, the burning question is like, Yeah, I know, you know, just for context for the audience. You know, Sarah has been in a leadership role many times, right. And so this is something she’s used to, but like for me, you know, just being totally honest. Like, I don’t have as much energy experience as you do. So, like I can, I can do all the things you just said, but I don’t know, how do I gauge it? Right? What’s my measurement? What’s my barometer? Like? How do you go about that?

Sarah McMaster
Yeah, it’s, I’d love to say that there’s some quick, easy answer. But I think a lot of it comes down to being able to read people and being able to have empathy. So how do I know my team is thriving? One, they tell me that they are or they are not, right? I’m struggling with something, I’m challenged with something, or I’m feeling really great about something. So that’s that’s a question that I asked often. How do you feel about this? What are your barriers? What do you you know, what are your challenges, and that’s a great way to just have that pulse. Because everybody’s not the same every day, right? We have good days, we have bad days, we have days where we feel really great about coming to work, we have days where we’re like, oh, a Monday. And so I’m not expecting this kind of static, everybody is thriving, period done, move on to the next thing, it’s really very fluid. So I hope that they will tell me, right, and what does that come down to is trust. So something that’s really important to me, is trust and respect. So when we did our kind of expectation setting or norm setting I was very clear about, I will always be honest with you, even if it’s something that you like a hard conversation. And I hope that that’s reciprocal, right. It’s it’s basic human nature. Reciprocity is basic human nature. We’re a social species, and that’s how we operate in in our world. So if I respect you, chances are that you will respect me and we can find that common ground. So lots of different personalities, you know, lots of different people with different stages of their life and things that they’re dealing with, you know, during their workday and outside their workday. And so I know my team is thriving, because I’m still learning, I don’t know them, but I’m still learning as individuals, and that they each have their own, you know, ebb and flow. And so no, like hard KPIs on on thriving. But really, it comes down to, you know, a year from now, did we reach all of our goals, because a team that’s thriving is productive, people that are happy, do good work. And so, and they also see themselves in the process. So I know that each one of my team members can articulate their contributions, and how it rolls up to our team level goals, to our organizational goals, our strategic plan. Because that’s something else that we spend time and energy on.

Shiro Hatori
I’ll pick you that’s really refreshing I, you know, I, for some reason, I think in someone in my shoes is a b2b marketer, like I don’t really think about the 3060 90 in terms of the human element, but it’s so important. And as a leader, I think that’s a huge piece of learning and advice that you have to find your, your, your position and your and your team and where you stand in it. And that’s just as important as any hard metric around a number.

Sarah McMaster
Yeah, you know, a lot, there’s a, there’s a good argument to be made, but a good conversation to be had around the difference between a leader and a manager or a supervisor, you can be both, I’m definitely both. But as a supervisor and manager, that’s administrative, right, that’s like, one on one meetings and doing evaluations and you know, those kinds of things, but being a leader is a different thing. And that’s all about people. And something that I’ve also learned in, in my time in different leadership roles and capacities, is that there’s more than one kind of leader. You know, some of my earlier role models were very different people than I am in terms of their, their temperament, their, their, their skill set, you know, things like that. And it took me a long time to realize that I didn’t have to be the same kind of leader as other role models that I saw, you know, strong women in higher ed or you know, whatever that might be, that I am an individual, and that I am going to be an individual, as a leader as well, and that I don’t have to try to fit a mold or meet a certain expectation in terms of what is a a woman in higher ed, as a leader? What does that look like? Because you could bring 100 Women in higher ed together, and they would probably all have a very different conversation with you. And I think that’s a great thing. But it’s also something that you kind of have to learn through years of experience, right of like, trial and error. Did that work? No, it did not. Okay, back to the drawing board, try something else.

Shiro Hatori
That’s fantastic. Thanks for sharing that, uh, switching gears slightly here. I know, one, one aspect of your curriculum development is around the topic of digital ethics and digital literacy. And when you first told me that I actually had no idea what that meant. And so, you know, I love for you to talk a little bit more about maybe starting with the definition of what that says and how this applies to, you know, marketing or higher ed in general.

Sarah McMaster
Sure it in thank you for asking, it is something I love talking about. So happy to do it. So the three terms that we had talked about were digital ethics, digital literacy, and digital citizenship. So I’ll start with digital ethics, because I think we all kind of, we know what ethics are, right? It’s like rules of the road. It’s how, again, as social beings that need to interact with other people, it’s kind of how we all choose to interact together and be positive, right? Ethics should, I think should be considered something that has positive impact on on the environment, right, if you act in an ethical way, I think most people would say, that’s a good thing. So it’s our norms of behavior. And digital ethics is no different. It’s just we have this new way that we interact with each other and that we, you know, we live our lives in this kind of hybrid manner where we have in real life, and we have a digital context that’s continuing to expand and develop. And so digital ethics is simply how we act how we bring ethics and philosophy into the digital space. It’s that simple. Did I’ll go to digital citizenship next because I think this is where it starts to get a little bit more further away from the traditional concepts. So digital citizenship is a framework that kind of breaks our activities in a digital context into typically about nine different aspects or elements or facets. So it’s things like access to, you know, how do people access digital contexts how do they get online? And what are the the inequalities in that in that area that we need to think about some of the most popular topics that are aspects of digital citizen would did digital citizenship would be privacy, right? Everybody knows that their personal information is really valuable. And so that’s an aspect of digital citizenship is is realizing that and acting accordingly. So access, privacy and security, commerce, right. Being able to shop online isn’t another aspect. Communication. Social media is a great example of how we use digital contexts for communication, and how that’s really sometimes seems like a runaway train. But that’s something that digital citizenship is a framework through which we can try to understand how we communicate via social media. Going right along with that is etiquette. I think that’s one that again, if you’ve spent any time on, you know, on Facebook, on Reddit, on any of these online platforms, and you’ve had a bad experience, you’ve run into digital citizenship in the form of somebody not adhering to etiquette, there’s this qualitative difference that happens between if I’m speaking to you in person, I hold myself to a different level of accountability than I do if I’m a an anonymous person behind, you know, a screen name. And we’re interacting in a digital digital space. So those are different experiences where some people act in different ways. And so another aspect of, of digital citizenship, the others are literacy, law, safety and rights and responsibilities. So digital literacy, one of those aspects is the one that I’m kind of the most keyed in on because I feel like it’s the it’s a good place to start. In terms of education, everything for me is always about education. So digital literacy is very similar to, you know, literacy as a broad concept, do I? Can I read an intake information adequately? Or even beyond adequacy? Am I do I have skills and expertise in terms of literacy? And it’s really just translating that to digital contexts? So for example, for the average consumer in the world, do they understand that when they give their email to a website that they’re then going to be receiving? You know, email marketing? Like, is that understood? Do they know what they’re signing up for? That’s an aspect of digital literacy. Being so digital literacy is like your individual level of savviness. In digital context, do you understand that phishing is a thing? And do you know how to avoid it? Do you have measures in place to make sure that when you are shopping online, that your credit card information or your payment information is safe? These are all aspects of digital literacy that allow you as an individual to get the most out of it, but also to operate in a way that keeps you safe and secure. So that’s kind of the the primer on those on those items

Shiro Hatori
in the way this works like, like, would you say, Hey, I’m Shiro, and I’m a digital citizen of digital literacy. And you said data and privacy rights. So like, for example, I’m a digital system is like, is that how you talk about it? Like, um, how does that fit under an NDA? No.

Sarah McMaster
I don’t know that I’ve ever heard anyone say it quite like that. It’s not really a common, it’s not in our common public vocab. Okay. So I think I think in the future, it may be, I’m starting to see more. I’m starting to see it come up more as a term in in the space like in education. But it’s definitely not widespread. I don’t think most people out there would identify as a digital citizen. I think it’s still too new for that. Although it’s it’s definitely been a concept that’s that’s around for a little while, I think more. Hmm, that’s a really interesting question.

Shiro Hatori
I think I’m just hung on the word citizen. And so I want to like Yeah, yeah.

Sarah McMaster
Like, I’m a citizen of Facebook, or, you know, of time to a certain WhatsApp, or some certain

Shiro Hatori
niche or, you know, group or community within the digital space. Yeah. And maybe that’s,

Sarah McMaster
I’ve never thought of it that way. I think of it more as just that framework of just like, I’m a citizen of the United States, for example, and therefore I am, participate in, you know, a democracy and this and that, I think that it’s, it’s broader, or you can use that analogy that you’re just operating in a shared understanding. So if if we were to kind of both compare and contrast our online digital experiences, we would find I shared space. And that would be how we would kind of talk about our digital citizenship, I don’t think we’ve reached the place where people use it as like an identifier. Gotcha. Okay.

Shiro Hatori
And you know, love, love defining things, because I think the internet is still very well defined. And I see where this is going. Now, I’m having a better understanding of of this, how does understanding, you know, these topics around digital ethics, digital literacy, literacy, digital citizenship? How do these help you as a marketer, and as a higher ed marketer, or enrollment manager as well? Like, how does understanding this feedback into your, your role and your work as well?

Sarah McMaster
Yeah, it’s definitely an important part of how I think about my work. And there’s a movement for something called humane technology. And that’s basically something that I advocate for, which is, in a nutshell, as we develop new technologies, so the next social media platform, the next chat GPT, whatever these next things are, that instead of it just being in the, the sphere of engineers and computer scientists, that we also need to have philosophers humanities ethics, as part of that development process, so that just because we can build something, doesn’t mean we should, or that just because we can create an algorithm that’s aiming towards profit, doesn’t mean we should, we could also create algorithms that value and are built around other values, then profit or, you know, collecting user information. So there’s this whole movement that’s kind of coalescing now around this realization, as we’re moving so fast towards AI and so fast towards these technologies, that we have this group of people saying, Whoa, hold on, let’s make sure that we’re doing this right. Because this is, we may not have another chance once we set the some of these technologies free. So that’s just the context through which I’m thinking, when it comes to my role. These are concerns that I can take down to the tactical level, let me give you some examples. So when we we have we do email marketing, we have websites, of course, how are we writing our privacy policies? How are we having students opt in versus opt out of receiving certain communications, those are all expressions of digital citizenship, and just respecting our consumers, as the savvy consumers that they are, they know that their information is valuable. And from an education standpoint, they also know that their time is very valuable, and we don’t want to waste their time. So we need to be thinking about those kinds of things. When we collect and store data, you know, not just FERPA protected data, but you know, their communication preferences, their Gmail that they shared with us, whatever that may be. When we use student images in our marketing materials, you know, did we very clearly explain that these are for marketing purposes, when we ask them to come to a photo shoot, hopefully, these are things that all the marketing people are shaking their heads and saying, Yes, that’s what you know, that’s how we approach it as well. But it’s even more nuanced things like, how do I train the people that have access to applicant data? Do they know that when they walk away from their machine that they need to, you know, not leave that screen up? Like even how we’re kind of dealing with data is a great way to think about that. Another way is, you know, as a learning institution, we’re teaching students, we have programs, we have cybersecurity programs, we have business programs, we have MBA, how are we embracing new technologies and infusing that into our pedagogy? How are we making sure that our faculty who are amazing experts in their fields, that they have the ability to keep on top of these really rapidly advancing technologies and can in real time bring them into their classroom, because that’s what’s going to bring the most value to our Champlain graduates. So those are just some of the ways you know, either tactical or, or even outside of marketing, that we can use this concept as a lens to, to kind of see our work.

Shiro Hatori
Yeah, that makes sense. I’m thinking. It’s almost like the digital literacy part is understanding that like, the students you’re marketing to, and your prospective students are very digital, digitally literate, understanding that and so that sets a high bar for the digital ethics that you’re running through as an institution to communicate right and so like It’s just kind of a, what’s the right word here? It’s a connective tissue or a relationship, right? Where like, if the digital literacy literacy is high, like the ethics also, like have to match that otherwise, you’re not going to meet your students where you want like an example that could be like you gave, like, if a student didn’t know, when they were opted in, and purposely did it and they are still getting email that could actually leave a bad taste in their mouth about the institution be like, hey, like, you know, they shouldn’t email me right now. But they are. They’re reaching out to me when they hadn’t opted in. And that could be a it’s the right word here, a disconnect, actually negatively impacted institution. Exactly. Right. So

Sarah McMaster
we have to be on top of those things. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And it even more for online education, because you really, you really hit on something there, right? Our students, we hope have high digital literacy, because as an online 100% Online, the programs that we have are 100% online, that’s a necessity, if they’re going to get the most value out of it, we really have to make sure that they have digital literacy and can use the learning management system, right, the platform on which we deliver our classroom experience. And so one of the important things at any institution has to do is address that. So you know, is it like an FYE First Year Experience type course where you can get a feel for somebody’s not only their readiness for college, but also their readiness for an online program and make sure that that’s a good fit? And if it isn’t, what do we have in terms of bridging, you know, a bridging course, or some kind of support that we can offer so that they can thrive and that they can have that best experience in an online format. So there’s, you could think of anything, you know, throughout marketing and Enrollment Management and higher ed, and we could find a tie in to digital literacy and digital citizenship. I’m sure

Shiro Hatori
it’s fantastic. I can really hear that curriculum developer speaking out of here right now. It’s just Glitz glowing. You know, that. Sarah, thank you so much for sharing all that. Really awesome. Two topics. One’s really tactile and definitive. And the others, you know, super high level leadership conversation, love them both. I’m wondering where our listeners can actually reach out to you and learn more about what Sarah’s up to or what she complains up to?

Sarah McMaster
Absolutely. Well, given all I’ve just said, you may be surprised to know, I am not super active on social media. But I do love LinkedIn. And I would love to connect with any listeners or anyone that’s interested in anything that we talked about today. So you can find me on LinkedIn. And also I would love to share the Champlain Champlain College online blog, where we have great articles about a lot of the topics that we talked about in terms of our our courses that we offer our programs. And that’s a great resource as well.

Shiro Hatori
Thank you so much, Sarah. Thanks for joining us today.

Sarah McMaster
My pleasure. Thank you for having me. Great, and thanks to

Shiro Hatori
our audience for tuning in. Please check us out on the next episode. We’ll be here. Thanks, everyone.

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