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Shiro Hatori
Hey everyone. Welcome to the higher ed demand gen podcast hosted by concept 3d. If you like our content, please follow and subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple, Google or whatever your platform is. And if you’re on Apple podcasts, please drop us a comment. My name is Shiro. And today we will be talking about improving the First Year Experience and improving student retention as well. And for that I’m super excited to have nee Abraham’s joining us on today’s episode. Now he is currently serving as the Director of the First Year Experience at Butler University, which is actually a newly created role. So he’ll go a little bit more into that detail as well. But yeah, welcome to the podcast.

Nii Abrahams
Hey, thank you, Shiro. I’m really grateful that we have a chance to meet and this is our second time working together. So it’s been able to get a little longer form conversation. And I’m excited to chat about first your experience. So I’m passionate about about building community and belonging. I know, we were talking offline, you’re you feel the same way. So I’m excited to to have a conversation and have people join in and be a part.

Shiro Hatori
Thanks, Nate. Yeah, we recently had a online event slash webinar on a student onboarding for moving day to first year experience. And so if you have a chance to check that out, please go to our website at Castle thirty.com. But yeah, moving on here. I do love asking all my guests this icebreaker, what do you love about higher ed knee?

Nii Abrahams
What I love about higher ed. So this is gonna sound super millennial of me, I’m only 31. So I can’t say that, like I’m I’m getting old. But I feel old sometimes. But what I love working. What I love about higher ed is that I stay young, right? I just feel like I’m constantly learning. I constantly get to know what’s happening in the world, what people are caring about what the next gen cares about. And there’s just like an energy and a vibrancy about higher ed that I appreciate. You know, oftentimes there are jobs where you can just do the same thing for, you know, year after year after year. And higher ed is one of the only industries where every four years it is a a whole new group of people and a whole new people that market that you’re marketing to and that you’re engaging with and serving, which to me is like a really fun opportunity to like you have no choice but to innovate. And so I think that’s really fun. And the energy always has to stay high. Like there’s no downtime. And I don’t know, for my personality, I love that. So it’s really cool. And the relationships are great, like watching awkward freshmen become, you know, really competent seniors who graduate and do great things and get married and, you know, start new jobs, all sorts of things. To me, it’s a blast. So I love being a part of that process for him.

Shiro Hatori
I love that I I’m on social media a little bit more because I work in Marketing, right? So I can absorb, like what’s relevant and what’s new today. And like, I think this morning, I was looking at a tech talk. And they’re using the word raise a lot. Yeah, to Google what it meant, but like keeping me up to date with the Gen Z where it’s it’s

Nii Abrahams
funny, because it’s like, it’s charisma. And I don’t know why it took me like months to figure that out. And I was like, I am an idiot for not realizing it’s right there in front of me. And I I couldn’t get it. And welcome to being in our early 30s.

Shiro Hatori
Right. That’s great. Yep. keeps you young. Well, Nick, can you tell us a little bit more about your, your role? I know it’s a newly created position. So I’d love to learn more about you know, what you’re responsible for what you’re up to?

Nii Abrahams
Yeah, so just to give a little context. So I’ve been at Butler for one year, I was at a previous institution, a small private Christian school, doing admissions work, as well as director of orientation and first year experience there. And last year, Butler reached out to me and said, Hey, we’ve been working with the gardener Institute. And if you’re unfamiliar with the gardener Institute, they are higher ed leaders who work with universities to really focus on retention, first year experience, etc. And so we’ve partnered with them for this past year, we did a year long self study, we worked with different aid partners all across campus, we have 51 action items, and we need one of those action items is someone to manage the lead and kind of like take us into the next season when it comes to our intentional focus on first the first year experience. And so that role was created. And they reached out to me and kind of knowing my experience in higher ed particularly in this in this field. And it was a it was a really great fit. And so essentially my job is I am kind of the best way to describe it because it’s a really unique role is I’m essentially kind of like a bridge when it comes to first year experience between all the different divisions we have on our campus. So enrollment, academic affairs, student affairs, diversity, equity inclusion, I kind of sit in between all of those different divisions. Functionally, I’m in academic affairs, which is really unique because this role for most universities is in student affairs. So that was at a student affairs retreat yesterday and I basically call myself like the fun uncle. But essentially like My job is to help those who work with students leverage different opportunities to make sure that our first year students are seeing noticed and are intentionally being are and have intentional experiences crafted for them. So for instance, we have an incredible director of orientation and family programming, we have an assistant director, there is someone who is a director over our first year seminar. So I’m not the one who has to lead all of those, but I come alongside each one of them. And they’re part of my committee, as well as other committee as well as other individuals and change agents on our campus to really look at our, our process, full scale and say, like, where are we missing the mark? Because this was this was said in our, in my interview, you know, when everyone is talking about First Year Experience, like no one really is right, like when everyone’s like when it’s everyone’s business and ends up being no one’s business, because Welcome to higher ed, right, everyone listening to this podcast knows that everyone has a ton on their plate. So if we want to make something a priority, then it really requires someone to really lead those efforts. And so that’s where my job came in. So I do everything from professional development, to advising to working with our enrollment marketing team to just meeting with students. So I’m kind of all over the place, but everything’s centered around how do we create a cohesive pathway for first year students from the time they deposit to the time that they finish their first year, where they feel like they have the tools to succeed their second, third, fourth year and beyond.

Shiro Hatori
Love that, and what one word we say a lot is the connective tissue. Ideally, when you’re working across different departments, that’s what I thought of. So you’re kind of bringing all those different departments and which is which really is together. Yeah,

Nii Abrahams
and I love that word. Because one of the things I noticed really quickly Butler’s a fantastic university are really well connected. But as with every university, oftentimes their silos, right. And so it’s funny, I’ll have conversation, I would have one conversation, one department, and they’re working on this particular student project, I’ll work with another department or in another meeting, they bring me in to talk about something. And it’s like, hey, they’re doing almost the exact same thing. But from a different perspective. It’s like, if you got do you guys even know this was happening? So I have a really cool opportunity to kind of build those relationships and say, how do we create that connective tissue to say, can we create something that makes sense for everyone that we’re not duplicating resources that we can really say like, if you’re doing this for first year students and first year students are hearing this language over here? That’s confusing. So how do we make sure that everyone’s on the same page that our first year students are getting clear and consistent communication? And so that connective tissue is, is a big part of what I do. So I really liked that that phrase.

Shiro Hatori
Great. And so for Butler or for you, like, Why do you think that these resources should be allocated in your position? Like, whether it be at Butler or you know, at another university? Why is this important for higher ed? Yeah,

Nii Abrahams
I, these roles are really unique, because ultimately, everyone has a first year experience, right? Like, that doesn’t change, like, by default of having a first year, you have a first year experience. I went to Missouri State for my undergrad and my masters, and I had a phenomenal experience there. And at the time, the university’s tagline was follow your passion, find your place. And I was a student leader, I did a bunch of stuff. And so that was always like a big joke for us. We’re always talking about, you know, follow your passion, find your place. And as I got older, I realized the inherent harm that a slogan like that could be, because isn’t it we’re saying is like, hey, like, you’re here, now go figure it out. And the reality is, is like we are now in a full generation of students where like, they need more than just like, you’re here, like, good luck. You know, same thing with culture, like culture isn’t just absorbed culture is taught. And so for telling our first year students like this is what it means to be about their student. Oftentimes, we’re assuming that is being taught and communicated. But then when we really kind of do like a biopsy without blame across our campus, we’re realizing that like, that’s not really happening the way we want it to. So when I when my role was created, and during the interview process, one of the things that they want to be really intentional in is we want someone to be able to look at this holistically and say, like, where are the areas that we’re doing well, and where are the areas where there are gaps? And how do we close those gaps? So for me, and when I think about the First Year Experience, overall, especially for higher ed in general, I just think it’s really important that we don’t just tell students that like going to school and be in your first year is important just by the default that it is, but that we actually are able to intentionally say here’s the pathway in the journey that you’re going on. Because then hired becomes more than just like a tool to get a degree but it becomes a place to like become and I think that’s the goal right to belong and become but that doesn’t happen by chance that happens with intentional crafted conversation, intentional crafting, programming workshops, communication across the board, and if we know that our first year is the most significant, then then we need to be really intentional beyond orientation weekend to create that for the entire year. So that’s my like super philosophical, philosophical answer, basically saying that the First Year Experience matters, we know that. But oftentimes resources aren’t put to ensure that that intentionality is being crafted from start to finish.

Shiro Hatori
Thank you. Yeah, that’s, I love that answer. And it from from an institutional business perspective, like, what does that mean for the school as well?

Nii Abrahams
Yeah. It really just means the allocation of resources, like, you know, my role being created requires a shift in finances. One of the things that brother has been really intentional in is providing support. So for instance, I know we’ll talk about this a little bit later. But how do we support those who teach first year students beyond just our first year seminar faculty, because first year experience starts in the classroom. Oftentimes, we think it starts with like programming outside and kind of like the quote unquote, Student Affairs room, which that’s a big part of it. But everyone has a first year experience in the classroom. So there’s been a lot of particular resources being put into making sure that are those that teach first year students have the resources they need, as well as professional development and things like that. And from a business perspective, right, it makes sense that we know and I don’t know, I don’t have the numbers on me right now. But we know that for every student that is retained, like that is a significant financial consequence in a positive way for the university. And so we want students to be here because we believe in the power of higher education, but from a business perspective, man, it’s it helps our bottom line. And that’s also like, a real part of this process, too. So we retained we focus on retention, not just because it’s the bottom line, but because we want to see students succeed. But that is a real part of that process, too.

Shiro Hatori
Yeah, thanks for putting out very explicitly there. Appreciate that. And what are some of the things that you’re implementing today in terms of you know, you’re in the in the shoes for a little over a year now? Or just around a year? What are some success strategies you’re trying to implement? Like, what’s next?

Nii Abrahams
Yeah, there’s a lot. As I mentioned before, if you know, Butler, you’ll this makes total sense. But out of the we’re partnership that we had with Gartner, we ended up having about 70 Something action items, I got pared down to 51. So I basically like my first day on the job is like, here’s these here’s this massive list of things that like we want you to steward. And obviously other stuff comes up out of it, you know, you pull on one string 10 Other things come out. So, in that there’s a lot of different things we’re working on granted, and thankfully, not everything is based off of me. So I’m not the only one has to be the sole some of the chair. Yeah, there’s some sharing, which somebody’s like, okay, good. He’s not crazy. But some of the things I’m really excited about is we’re being really intentional in professional development for our faculty who teach first year students. So for instance, in a couple of weeks, we’re having an all day kind of like summit workshop for faculty who teach first year students. So in the morning, it’s going to be our first year seminar courses, and then about 30 representatives from our six different colleges. We’re going to talk about who’s in their classroom led by college of ed professionals like what who’s Gen Z, like? Who are the people who are coming in? What does mental health look like on our campus as well as in the classroom, anti racist and inclusion work within the classroom, student success strategies, high impact practice panel, and then we’ll have the second half of the day will be more geared towards how do we specifically intentionally within the classroom, have experiences cater to first year students. So the first part is really global, and really like macro. And then the second afternoon is really micro. Working with our Center for faith and vocation, too, we just received a grant to basically create a two year fellowship, where we’re inviting 12 faculty who teach first year students to go on a year long journey, where they are basically, we’re working with these faculty to talk about how do we engage our first year students, when it comes to vocation, meaning and uncertainty because we know like the role is very uncertain. So like, the goal is like now so in two years, we’ll have 24 faculty have gone through this fellowship that it stipends to get paid to be a part of this with so I’m really excited about so of 24 faculty in the end of two years, who again, be able to be ambassadors for this kind of work that we’re doing. Man, there’s a lot we’re kind of reimagining our advising model and not just because we have faculty who advise so we’re small enough school that that’s a part of our process. We don’t have like a centralized adviser area by college, but working with our Student Success Center, and how do we contextualize it appreciative advising for first year students in the context of Butler so what does that look like? How do we what are the conversations and questions we need to ask our first year students before they come on campus? Besides, when they arrived before they even have their first like official advising appointment with the register for classes. What does mentorship look like? Right? So I could talk on and on. But essentially, our goal is how do we equip and empower faculty and staff to be intentional and looking at first year students from a different perspective? And how do we create those channels for engagement? Knowing that, yes, they are students. So there are events for all students, but also we need to be really intentional with our first year students as well. And if we are able to give our first year students great experiences in the classroom, even if they are commuter students, so they’re not engaging in after co curricular activities, or they’re working and or they have to be at home because they’re watching family that at least that they’re having a good experience within the classroom. And that is a key indicator for our students were able to retain into their sophomore year.

Shiro Hatori
This is insightful because I think a lot of the conversations I’ve heard around this, and maybe I’m asking them improperly but have been focused on the student, but you’re, what I’m hearing is your brain, the faculty staff hadn’t been together and starting there, and bringing all those people together, which is super interesting. You know, I feel like the conversation always starts with the student. But I like how you’re, you’re bringing in the people who matter. I’ve heard that academics are usually in faculty are usually not involved in talking, talking about or having conversations around first year student experience. So it’s really interesting that this is what this is how you’ve started the conversation because it’s a little different than what I’ve heard and you know, different speakers,

Nii Abrahams
I appreciate you saying that. It was one of the things that when I came into this role, that was a real switch in my thinking, my previous institution was in this work, I essentially it kind of was like faculty is going to be faculty, right? Like my dad’s professor, I know that world, like they’re just doing their thing. And so it’s all about the programming. It’s all about student affairs, etc, etc. And our student affairs division here is phenomenal. So this is not like a slight against student affairs. But one of the things when we talked about the First Year Experience is it always starts there. And then we just assume the faculty don’t care. Or we know that there’s certain faculty that are just naturally really gifted in building relationships. So we use them for everything. And we just like hope that like by osmosis somehow, that they’re like, going to figure it out. That was really interesting. When I came here, having some intentional conversations with individual members of the Gardiner Institute, that was something that really came out that was a bias for me that I had to work on. And realizing that like No, like this part of the process for first year students, getting faculty on board is a huge part of the process. It was really interesting. In my second week on campus, we hosted these coffee conversations where basically invited faculty and to share, here’s what’s happening, etc. One of those coffee conversations was centered around engagement in the classroom, how do we build belonging in the classroom in really simple ways that doesn’t involve like a whole class period, but like 510 minutes, etc. And these are things in my head that I’m like, these are really easy. Like, this is stuff I do naturally, like, you’d have to tell me these. So for student affairs professionals are like, Yeah, I do this in my sleep. But it was so interesting to hear faculty be like they’re asking questions or taking notes. And I’m like, Y’all know this. And it was one of those moments where it’s like, oh, yeah, y’all are brilliant in your area of expertise. But that doesn’t mean you know how to connect with students in a way that’s meaningful, outside of the classroom, or even within the classroom. So it was important for me to take a step back and be like, okay, like, our faculty are human too, and they want to connect, they may just may not have the tools or resources to, and if our Academic Affairs and Student Affairs divisions don’t come together, then how are we learning from each other? If we talk about holistic care, and wellness for students, we always talk about it in the context of student affairs. But we don’t do a really great job of bridging that gap with academic affairs to in ways that make sense for them, right? Like, they’re not going to have a bunch of like mindfulness workshops every single day in class. But is there like a five minute strategy? Do they have a list of resources? Do adjuncts know where to go to do adjuncts know that counseling services exist on campus? Right? Like even simple things like that make a big difference for first year students because they’re going to be in front of those faculty the most and so how do we empower them to feel confident, to engage first your students and to create an experience for them? That’s, that’s worthwhile.

Shiro Hatori
That’s fantastic.

Nii Abrahams
I think it’s something that I’m really passionate about, because, you know, I was really confused when I started this role, why I was an academic affairs. And it became very clear that like being undecided the house gives me an opportunity and agency to engage the faculty in ways I wouldn’t have the opportunity to otherwise. And I’m really grateful. And again, we have incredible faculty and so a lot of them partner in a lot of different ways and spaces. But it’s a really for me, that was like one big area in conversation when we talk about first year experience that I realized is lacking. And our conversations always centered on programming, which again, is a critical part. But so is this part two. So

Shiro Hatori
it’s fantastic. Yeah, it sounds like whoever, you know, thought of this ahead of time, your position and your role and the gap that was necessary and where it needed to fit in to tie. Academics and faculty together was, you know, smart, smart move. Very job. In, you know, you’re talking a little bit about how you work with faculty and academics. What is your relationship like with marketing? Or communications? Or how does first your experience programs or campaigns relate with the marketing comm team? And how do you guys play together?

Nii Abrahams
Yeah, that’s a great question. So in my like, overarching career, I have had just a hodgepodge of things. And so both my degrees in communication, I worked for a communication, and I was a communication and content strategist for a large nonprofit, I’ve been an additional marketing agent. So I have a lot of experience in that. So for me, it’s something I’m really passionate about. And I’m really grateful. Our team here, our enrollment marketing team, they are phenomenal. And they’re brilliant people, they care about students, similar to us, you’re like, it’s not just produce a piece and go, it’s about like building community in that, like, I really appreciate you, you know, we had this conversation off here about being like an ethical marketer. And that’s like, really important to you. Like, it’s more than just like, selling something. And I’m really grateful, because our team is the exact same way. So when I came on, they were really intentional with me. And I was really intentional with them saying, like, I want to be, I want to be a part of your team, like, like, I’m going to as many meetings that can come to I’m going to be around. And so that has been a really great relationship. And so a couple of things I’m really proud of, is there’s a piece that we send out, that was sent out every year, that was just kind of another, like, here’s who we are, here’s our academics, it was a kind of a yield piece. So we actually kind of transformed that into like a First Year Experience specific piece, I wish I had it around, Oh, it’s over here, so. And so we basically turn it into a First Year Experience piece where it’s like a letter from me, basically saying, like, hey, like, your first year is scary. It’s, it can be a lot, it can be overwhelming, but it’s okay, like bring your mess here, we’re going to walk with you through this journey, talking about just different elements in the first year that they can experience as a way to kind of be like, hey, like, more than just, hey, we can do all these different things, but really be specific. And so I’m really proud of this piece that they put together, it was great. Another big thing that working with enrollment is we actually branded our first year experience. So our first experience is called Butler one. And that is the that is the framework in which everything First Year Experience falls under so not everything is Butler one, right. But like for instance, like we know that there are specific things that happen throughout the summer, throughout the fall throughout the spring that can get put into the butler one framework. So now when admissions is communicating with incoming students about, okay, what is the differentiator between Butler from another school beyond just saying faculty who cares about class sizes, because like everybody says that we can say like, we have an intentional First Year Experience framework that starts from beginning to the end, we have learning outcomes associated with them. It’s more than just orientation. It’s more than just a First Year Seminar course, it is a cohesive program. It’s something we’re working on right now, obviously. But things like branding, they did a phenomenal job. This piece. Also just other communication that we’ll send out to students has been great. We just finished up a podcast that they helped me out with, called The struggle was real, where we I interview faculty, staff, and students with the student, co host, we were talking about the transition to school and we just say like, Hey, what was your experience? Sometimes it wasn’t easy, but how did you learn? How do we How did you build resilience so that our students, incoming students get an actual, actual and authentic picture of what the First Year Experiences and their first few weeks because oftentimes, marketers like, hey, come to our school, you’re going to meet your best friend and your maid of honor in two weeks. And then when that doesn’t happen, students are like, Hey, what’s going on here? And so yeah, so and so be able to create authentic pieces that are clear, consistent, like that’s just a few of the ways that we’ve worked with enrollment, but I’m really, I’m really thankful. And I think that that piece is really important, because the first year experience is really all about storytelling prior to when they get here. And so that’s something that’s really important to me. So we’re really working heavily on how do we tell the story of our first year, the good and the bad, and hopefully let them people know that like, Hey, this is who we are, but this is how we’re growing. And I think that that is what this current generation of students are wanting. They’ve been consumers their whole life like they had been, they have literally like, all they know is I am a consumer you speak to me so like all the marketing stuff, like the tricks you can’t really quote unquote, trick me anymore, right? Like so let’s be clear and authentic in who we are like your first experience is not always gonna be perfect, and that’s okay. But we have a framework, we have tools, we have people to help walk you through that. So when that does happen, you’re not alone and it’s not on you, but we there’s people who can help you grow so you That’s a long answer for enrollment marketing is awesome. And everyone needs to be communicating and partnering with them.

Shiro Hatori
That’s invigorating. It’s, it’s interesting how you have branded this term. And I admit you shared some of the positive benefits of this already. But I’d imagine like internally when you’re speaking about improving the First Year Experience from anything from like moving day orientation, to maybe like signing up for your classes next, for the next year, like, you can tie all those things. That word connective tissue, right? You can speak to all those terms internally with one branded word. So yeah, it’s really interesting. And I think, pretty unique how you’ve branded that first year experience with Butler one. That’s, that’s really cool.

Nii Abrahams
Yeah, I appreciate that. One of the things that I’m passionate about is we talk a lot about belonging. And there’s different types of belonging, right, there’s, there’s institutional belonging, where you have some people who are just connected to the institution, there’s academic belonging, where you’re not really connected to the school, but you’re connected to your academic department, or their social belonging, or etc, etc. And oftentimes, within the first year, those things are happening, but they’re kind of happening all over campus in a bunch of varying different ways. And what tends to happen is those students who either know how to college because they come from a college prep school, or maybe they have family that went to school, or they’re just confident in their ability to navigate spaces, those are the ones that end up getting access to have those kinds of belonging experiences, while students who maybe have to work or are maybe first gen who are still trying to figure out college the environment or, you know, there’s a variety of reasons why not are commuters, right, like there’s a bunch of different reasons are underrepresented minority students, right? Like, those students oftentimes don’t have the same level of belonging access, even though we say it’s available to everyone. And it technically is, but it’s not. So my goal is when the butler one is that ultimately down the line I would love is that it almost becomes a thing. It’s like a track where every student goes through kind of the similar stuff, obviously, it looks different, depending on the student. But we know that the end of that experience, every student has had an opportunity to have touch points in social belonging, and academic belonging, and institutional belonging with traditions, etc, etc. So that everyone has an opportunity to experience that as opposed to just like, we hope you get there. Like we hope you do this thing, but you know, and then obviously, you have to incentivize it like in a dream world, if you finish the complete Butler one, or whatever the case may be, you get like a scholarship at the end. But you know, hey, that’s a that’s a pipe dream. But like, that’s the goal, right? That like we are intentionally providing a framework and a pathway for students to go through that’s nameable and actionable, and that our students and our families know to serve our families are also champions of those students going to those events, because it’s a relationship accelerator, it’s an opportunity for you to meet people. And so we have our families as champions, too. So I’m excited to see how Butler one continues to grow. But yeah, that was an enrollment marketing, many meetings, like they’re phenomenal. So

Shiro Hatori
that’s so interesting. I like how you broke down the different aspects of belonging as well, like, I was definitely not an academic blog. Definitely. Somewhere in between institution and social because I went to a big university at CU Boulder. Okay, huge, huge, massive school. So it was hard to be tied to my academic department. But I saw that other students who were maybe in the business school like Leeds, they were definitely like, you would say, like, those are business kids. For sure. It’s so fascinating, right? Yeah, that’s really, it’s really bringing me back. That’s interesting. I love how you define it, though. Because then you can create those audiences as a marketers, right, as an admin, like you can create these different subsets of groups. One interesting thing I heard also is like commuter student versus non commuter student, and how you can create better experiences, because they are all usually the ones that are left out in, you know, every aspect of belonging that you mentioned, maybe they’ll just hide academics. So that was really interesting story too.

Nii Abrahams
And, and so I’m a part of a, I’m a co collaborator, co leader of a professional organization, that works professional organization, and within that professional organization, I’m a co leader in first year experience. And it’s interesting having it’s small, private Christian schools that you know, I’m not a part of one now, but it’s interesting is oftentimes we talk about commuters. The conversation is like, well, this is for residential students, and then you know, commuter students will figure something out. So I’m really grateful before I even arrived to Butler, one of the things that came out of the work that we did for First Year Experience Research was we created a commuter club. So this student organization, a fully functioning student organization through Student Government that provides mentorship for commuters. We redesigned a space that was for Esports that got moved that’s a keycard access only to commuter students. So there’s like a TV chairs, couches, fridge, all those things that’s available 24/7 for those commuter students, and then we just try our best to be really intentional in communicating to them as often as possible. Because that’s a group that oftentimes gets overlooked. And I mean, you know, this you’ve had 60. Other conversations I’m sure it’s come up often is that like the demographic of four year residential students is changing, right? Like our non traditional students, whether that be part time, adult veteran commuter students is growing. And so if we’re not intentional with those students, we’re missing out on a subset of, of brand ambassadors for the future, but also students that could could provide great value to the university, but we just aren’t speaking to them and communicating to them or providing experience for them. It requires more work. Thankfully, I’m in an institution that has capacity to do that. But I know that everybody does, but if we can be, even if you’re a small school, finding really simple ways to be intentional, I think goes a really long way.

Shiro Hatori
That’s fantastic. Everyone, let’s ask one more time, because that’s, that’s we need to walk away with here today. I’m wondering, you know, where our audience could reach out to you if they want to learn more about what you’re up to, and what Butler is up to?

Nii Abrahams
Absolutely. So you can find me if you go to our butler website, if you type in and I am the only knee. So you can just search me my informations there. My email is N Abraham’s ABR a jms@butler.edu. I am on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn, I use it often. And that’s my full first name is Neha co so it’s and I space kPa kPa, again, if you just type in ne, you’ll most likely find me. I’m also on Twitter, or I guess, X. I’m trying out threads, we’ll see. Who knows. But at the very least, you can find me on LinkedIn, you can email me I would love to connect. I chatted with someone from Maine a couple days ago who just like reached out kind of cold calls, like, Hey, I’m trying to figure this thing out. We’re starting this first experience, I could use some help. And I was like, I know what that is like. And I’m sure that you’re probably freaked out and thinking no one’s going to like reach out. So like, I will gladly hop on a zoom call with you and chat. So I love I value higher ed, I believe in paying forward. So if anyone wants to chat, I’m I’m all for it. I don’t have all the answers by any means. But I love building that community and talking things through.

Shiro Hatori
Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I know. I recently had Nikki Sundstrom on here, who’s who comes from a social media background, but she’s now in a ABP or VP role over at Indiana, okay. And that was one of her things. She’s like, hey, like, reach out to me. I’ll always respond. And that was like one of her key walkaway. So, to

Nii Abrahams
me, I feel like people say it and don’t mean it. Like I genuinely mean it. Like,

Shiro Hatori
yeah, she meant it. I heard her posts actually went semi viral. And I love it. And like she responded to every comment on everyone who reshard it and I was like, she’s, this is what she preached. So that’s great. So yeah, reach out to me, everyone. Thank you again for joining us today. It was awesome. Hopefully we can maybe recap on this and a year or two to see like everything that you’re all the good work you’re putting in today. And how how it’s progressed over the next year or two. And you know, we’d love to have you on again. And thanks again. For listeners for tuning in. Please check us out on the next episode. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, barons