How Early Engagement Builds Stronger College Connections
Brandon Busteed dives deep into how early engagement is crucial for colleges to connect with prospective students, even as early as eighth or ninth grade. With shifts in demographics affecting student populations, experiential marketing becomes a key strategy for colleges. By offering memorable experiences that resonate with teens, colleges can reinforce their brand and boost application rates. Pre-college programs, such as the New York Times school or Vogue summer school, are highlighted as prime examples of giving high school students a glimpse into the industry, fueling their college decisions.
The Role of Industry Partnerships in Higher Education
Busteed unveils how partnerships between universities and industries elevate learning. By connecting academic knowledge to the real world through practical projects with big-name brands, students gain a competitive edge. Programs, like the Manchester City Sports Business School, offer hands-on experiences and become resume gold. Challenges exist in scaling internships and ensuring quality, but these collaborations prove invaluable for student growth. Busteed underlines the need for work-integrated opportunities, helping students marry theory with practice, ultimately boosting career prospects and personal growth.
Why Word-of-Mouth and Net Promoter Score Matter in Academia
Despite being a cornerstone in business, word-of-mouth and Net Promoter Scores often fly under the radar in higher education. Busteed highlights how a higher NPS can reflect student satisfaction and drive enrollment. Programs like Vogue’s summer school generate organic buzz through positive experiences, turning students into brand ambassadors. Coupled with understanding Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC), colleges can use these insights to optimize their marketing efforts and ensure long-term success.
The Synergy of Industry Experts and Educators in Course Delivery
Collaboration between industry experts and educators isn’t without its challenges but holds immense potential. Educators often lack specific industry insight, while experts might not naturally be adept teachers. Busteed emphasizes the importance of training these experts, enhancing their teaching abilities while crafting curriculum alongside educational partners. This synergy, beyond just guest lectures, creates enriched learning environments. Many industry professionals find fulfillment in teaching, and through reflection, they offer students high-quality educational experiences tailored to today’s dynamic job market.
Read the transcription
Shiro [00:00:15]:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Higher Ed Demand Gen podcast hosted by Concept three d. If you like our content, please follow and subscribe to us on your listening channels. As always, I’m Shiro Hattori, your host today, and I’m very thrilled to talk about demand generation with pre college programming and why higher ed institutions need to know their CAC. So for the topic, I’m excited to speak with Brandon Basti today. He is the CEO at Brand Ed. Welcome to the show, Brandon.
Brandon Busteed [00:00:47]:
Yeah. Thanks thanks for the invite, Sher. Great to talk to you, and thanks for doing this podcast. I’m sure it’s valuable to, all the folks who tune in.
Shiro [00:00:54]:
Yeah. Thank you. And I I do ask all my guests this as a a fun icebreaker. Brandon, tell me what you love about higher ed.
Brandon Busteed [00:01:02]:
Oh, man. I I love the, the lifelong impact that that can be done through higher education writ large. You know, you think about, I mean, to me, one of the reasons why I’m most passionate about it is because of great mentors that I have when I was a student, faculty mentors, coach mentors, people who I’m still, you know, in touch with to this day, you know, that I built lifelong relationships with and, and the the impact of what they did for me and my life, is just immeasurable. So that’s, to me, when higher ed is done right, it’s a it’s a lifelong impact.
Shiro [00:01:36]:
Yeah. Thanks so much for sharing with me. I’ve I’ve mentioned this so many times before, but my closest friends and my circle of, like, closest five friends are all the folks I met at higher ed and so or at at my institution. So, I I couldn’t agree more. Well, let’s jump in here. Can you tell us, start off by telling us a little bit about your background and your role?
Brandon Busteed [00:01:58]:
Yeah. Sure. So I’m about a year in, as the CEO of BrandEd. BrandEd has been around in some form for a little over twenty years. It started with, the the acquisition of Sotheby’s Institute of Art out of Sotheby’s auction house. So we’ve been we’ve been operating Sotheby’s Institute of Art for a little over twenty years now. We also operate the school of the New York Times, Vogue College of Fashion, and Manchester City Sports Business School. And the theme across all those is is just an extreme focus on industry immersive education.
Brandon Busteed [00:02:33]:
And we’re doing this across pre college, you know, high school, student programs, collegiate programs for undergrads, and in a couple cases with Sotheby’s and with Vogue, master’s degree programs. But what’s consistent across all that is just a laser like focus on industry immersive education, where all of our programs are effectively co designed, co taught, by industry experts who are in these roles inside of these organizations and by educational experts who are helping create really, really powerful programs for students.
Shiro [00:03:07]:
That’s fantastic. I I didn’t, I didn’t ask this question in our pre, intro call, but I’m curious what, like, the day to day for Brandon looks like. I don’t usually speak to presidents and CEOs and institutions that often on the podcast. So I’m just curious.
Brandon Busteed [00:03:22]:
Yeah. Well, look. It’s it’s, it’s a lot of time with my team, you know, certainly within within the organization, working with the the leaders and and pretty much everybody across the organization, spending a lot of time in our various offices and campuses around the world between New York City and London and Madrid and Manchester. But as you can imagine too, it’s it’s a lot of time with your with your board. We’re owned by a family. It’s a family owned, entity. And so, you know, certainly as a CEO, you’re spending a little bit more time with strategic partners, with your board, and some of those things. But I’m constantly, out and about in the field, right, regularly at conferences, regularly visiting college campuses, or working with high school leaders as part of our pre college program.
Brandon Busteed [00:04:07]:
So I spent a lot of time trying to be in the field, you know, not just with, administrators within educational institutions, but with the faculty and the teachers and the students in those institutions. So it’s a balance between some real, you know, careful strategic thinking and planning and conversations at a board level and a lot of, quite frankly, like, on the ground, you know, being in in our programs. I mean, I always try and visit our programs as a fly on the wall and participant in the back, and, you you you learn a lot by seeing what’s what’s happening in the the student teacher or student faculty interface these days.
Shiro [00:04:42]:
Oh, that’s awesome. I love that you’re you’re spreading your time with boots on the ground too because I know that’s very, very hard to fit in. I’m curious. You you mentioned some conferences you were at. Was there any that stood out to you that was really helpful or impactful for you in the past year?
Brandon Busteed [00:04:56]:
Yeah. Well, there there’s a few that, have kinda become regulars for me that but the the theme across them is that they’re smaller events where there’s more time given to interaction with the participants. So, you know, the handful I’m thinking of are ones that were no more than a hundred to a 20 attendees, And the meals were unscheduled. There weren’t, you know, overly ambitious panel talks with, you know, lots of participants who were doing two minute sound bites each with no time for q and a. So so, you know, as much as I go every now and then to the really large, higher ed conferences that are out there, the ASU GSVs, I mean, continue to be valuable. But the ones that I think are are particularly useful, are smaller ones where where there’s time during that that, you know, that experience to really connect with people and to have unscheduled and non agenda time to talk with other leaders. So that’s, I think, the big challenge at conferences these days. There’s so much talk time, so much panel time, so little q and a, so little interaction outside of it.
Brandon Busteed [00:06:01]:
So I’m always looking for the smaller ones where more of that is possible.
Shiro [00:06:05]:
That’s awesome. Thank you for so much for sharing that. Well, let’s, let’s jump into some of the topics we have today. I know one of the big points we talked about in our our precall was, discussing different ways to cultivate student population and growth and what you’ve seen really works. So can you share us, with with your portfolios, different schools, what’s really worked for you today?
Brandon Busteed [00:06:26]:
So for BrandED, as evidenced by the name, you know, one of the big assets that we work with are are partnering with iconic globally recognized organizations. I mean, when you think about Vogue and the New York Times and Manchester City and, and Sotheby’s, you know, almost all of those are globally recognized brands. And and so we start there. Right? Recognition and, and the idea that these are organizations too that have been around for a long, long time. They have track record, history, you know, all the different things that give it credibility as an organization. When you’re developing educational programming around it, it builds it has that same instant credibility and brand recognition. So we we benefit from that greatly, but we also benefit from the fact that we can curate just unbelievable world class experiences for students because we’re able to work with our partners in bringing in experts who are in various roles across their organizations to teach, to create hands on projects with students, to give them feedback on those projects. We also can give students access to behind the scenes things that they couldn’t otherwise access.
Brandon Busteed [00:07:38]:
So our students that come to our Manchester City Sports Business School programs are literally taking classes in the Eddie Hodd Stadium. Right? I mean, you think about those those kinds of backdrops for the learning that you’re doing. It really is incredible. So, you know, in terms of attracting students, we have that that great benefit and asset of brands that are globally recognized and then brands that are recognized usually for very specific things. Right? If I say Vogue, you think fashion. And, of course, you know, one of our most popular programs, our our Vogue pre college programs that are being run-in New York City right now. You know, two week immersive experiences. We have had thousands of applications just in the past couple months, just for that Vogue, program and fashion.
Brandon Busteed [00:08:22]:
So, that’s certainly a big part of it. And as I think about higher ed, I know we’re gonna segue to it. You know, higher ed is in a is a is in a position now where whether you’re a college or university with a well known, well established brand or not, One of the most critical aspects of success is gonna be how early can you start to build a real meaningful connection with with students that are prospective students, right, where you build some real meaningful connection, value added, you know, delivered to that student that’s just beyond, a brochure or, you know, a social media ad or even the classic campus tour where, you know, you’re beholden to whether you’ve got a really dynamic tour guide or not. But how can you take some of the the best examples of the college, what it teaches, its star faculty, and extend that earlier and earlier in the cycle? If I can make a connection with an eighth grader or a ninth grader for somebody that’s gonna be thinking about me as an institution four or five years later, that’s gonna be a really big part of the ball game going forward, especially with, as you know and most of listeners know, the population age demographic cliff that is now officially upon us, as of this fall.
Shiro [00:09:35]:
No. That’s a really good point, and I I like that you mentioned, eighth, ninth grade because I do think, there’s research that shows that students are now prospective students are doing their research and identifying with certain brands or institutions earlier on than, let’s say, I did over a decade ago. And so, I like that you’re you’re you’re understanding your market as well.
Brandon Busteed [00:09:58]:
Yeah. And I think, look, there’s this there’s a term too that I know some college universities are are really starting to to think carefully about, but it’s it’s experiential marketing. Right? How can you, you know, in a retail setting, for example, experiential marketing has been a highly effective new strategy. Right? How can you create experiences that people then attach to your brand, right, and keep coming back for more? I think college universities are actually in an incredible position of strength to take advantage of experiential marketing. They just aren’t doing it very much yet. So I’m I’m hopeful for the future. There’s great examples from the business world that I think higher ed can learn from. And I think certainly some early adopter colleges, universities, they’re already well down that path, and it’s showing up.
Brandon Busteed [00:10:41]:
It’s showing up in their number of applications. And more importantly in their yield, the students who get in are much more likely to, you know, choose to matriculate there compared to other offers because they’ve had some meaningful, association or attachment or experience with that institution.
Shiro [00:10:58]:
Oh, that’s that’s so amazing. Do you mind sharing just like I know you have a bunch of amazing programs all the way from pre college to masters. Right? Can you just share one program that that comes top of mind right now just to have our listeners kinda get a better idea of what what the school and programs were like?
Brandon Busteed [00:11:14]:
Yeah. So so I mentioned, you know, one of the examples of our pre college programs. So typically tenth, eleventh, and twelfth graders who, are coming to us for two week immersive experiences. New York City is one of our big hubs where students can come to the school, The New York Times. They can come to our Vogue summer, school that we run there that just launched last year, this year and its second year. We also have a Sotheby’s Institute of Art, Summer Institute. So these are all programs that high school students can take advantage of. And these two week immersive experiences for many of them, if you just listen to the student experiences, read the comments they make when they fill out, forms about their experience, you know, they talk about how it is truly transformative.
Brandon Busteed [00:11:56]:
Right? That they’re doing things that don’t feel or look or act like school in the traditional sense to them. They’re getting involved in hands on projects. They’re getting to understand the various jobs and roles that exist within an industry. They’re getting to understand the industry and some of the lingo and some of the things that would be valuable in an interview process. And they’re importantly discovering, you know, what they’re interested in, which helps them zero in on what they wanna major in in college. So, you know, that’s a quick example of, of the precollege programs. We’re also running collegiate programs that are four week summer programs for undergrads who are interested in the same types of things. Right? So we have a Manchester City Sports Business School program in Manchester.
Brandon Busteed [00:12:39]:
We also just launched a new program with Wired, which is one of the Conde Nast brands, that’s gonna be a Wired and tech program for college students. But, again, the same fundamentals. Right? They’re being, taught by industry experts and educational experts together. They’re working on hands on projects. They’re getting iterative feedback on those projects. They’re getting to access people who are in the industry and build a rolodex of contacts. Right? And, and then importantly, they leave an experience like this. They put it on their resume, and it stands out as one of the most iconic aspects of their resume.
Brandon Busteed [00:13:13]:
These are brands that are, again, world renowned brands that are the top of the field in their particular industry. And when a student can say, hey. You know, I’m thinking about majoring in journalism, for example, and I went to the school of The New York Times. You know, that really is something that stands out on their resume. So there’s a lot of really neat things that are happening as part of that. That’s just a quick, you know, overview of our our pre college and collegiate programs.
Shiro [00:13:37]:
Oh, that’s fascinating. Thanks for explaining that. And I’m I’m trying to relay all of this, to traditional higher ed where most of my listeners are coming from. Like, what are parts of this partnering with brands do you think traditional higher ed can take from? And, you know, one example comes to mind is, University of Oregon and Eugene has some partnerships with Nike locally, because I believe that’s where they’re based at. So, like, that’s one that that comes to mind.
Brandon Busteed [00:14:01]:
Yeah.
Shiro [00:14:01]:
But, like, I still don’t think they, like, really market that. At least I I haven’t done any research, so I’m I’m coming, to this with no information. But, you know Yeah. What are some, ways that institutions can partner?
Brandon Busteed [00:14:15]:
Well, look. I I think, you know, you you there there’s a number of examples like the one you just mentioned where, you know, there is a particular program or a particular class or whatever it might be where there’s an industry partner. It may be a for profit entity or, you know, a nonprofit organization. Right? I think, you know, all all of the above are welcome, where there’s some, you know, contribution from that industry partner in the form of, you know, staff who come and teach in it. They provide, you know, the the the grist for a case study or some sort of project based learning for a student. I’m a huge fan of all of that, whether it’s, you know, a a a shorter term type of project, or something that might actually be longer term. I mean, obviously, there’s internship opportunities that some students have access to. I think the big challenge though as I think about internships is that, although there’s huge demand for them, there’s no evidence to suggest that internships are scalable.
Brandon Busteed [00:15:11]:
Right? So there were about 8,200,000 college students this year who wanted an internship. Only 3,600,000 had one. And of those, only 2,500,000 had what was deemed a quality experience with that internship. So first thing, they don’t scale. Second thing that they’re not always high quality. But I think the more that we can create connections between industry, organizations of all shapes and sizes, and higher ed, it’s gonna be really beneficial for students. If you look at their long term outcomes in work or life, some of the critical aspects that they experienced during college that double the likelihood that they’re successful in work and that they’re thriving in their well-being are work integrated learning opportunities. Did they have an internship where they were able to apply what they were learning in the classroom? Did they work on a long term project that took a semester more to complete? So any way that universities are finding opportunities to create those types of things, it’s gonna be a win for students and a win for the institution.
Brandon Busteed [00:16:10]:
And I think as it relates to, you know, working with brands, even if it’s a a simple step like embedding a case study. Right? Thinking about how to involve, you know, an industry expert in the co creation of a particular piece of a course, maybe not the whole course, but a component of it. All those things I think are gonna be really valuable. And then I think to your point, you know, I think there’s a there’s a bigger set of ideas around. Do we have partnerships where we can leverage the brand of a great organization with the brand of our university? And I think there’s, you know, there’s there’s a that’s a new early nascent, you know, part of the field, you know, an area where brand ed has been, you know, a real true pioneer. But I can certainly see how individual institutions can take advantage of that. I mean, we’re in the middle of conversations right now with college universities that wanna work with us to co brand aspects of their program with the organizations that we work with. So I can certainly see a huge appetite for this and, more interest in universities to to really make it happen.
Shiro [00:17:13]:
That’s fantastic. Thanks for all those examples. I I’d love to dive deeper and get more granular with the pre college programming. I actually didn’t really know too much about this before speaking with you. So first off, thank you for letting me, understand what this is all about. So, you kinda already explained what pre college education is. Right? It’s for the ten, eleven, twelfth graders to get some fundamentals, maybe take a two week course to understand a little bit more about the job, industry, a specific role. But I’d love to hear what your students are saying about these courses.
Shiro [00:17:48]:
What’s some of the feedback you’ve heard as you’ve been on the had had some boots on the ground?
Brandon Busteed [00:17:53]:
Yeah. So so, look, I as I mentioned, I try and take time to, you know, sit in the, you know, the courses and, you know, go on some of the field programs and components of it myself. We also spend a lot of time making sure we’re, you know, getting feedback from students on the program in quantitative and qualitative. And, you know, I think look. One of the one of the real there there’s a handful of things that are constantly referenced by students. And I sort of mentioned it earlier that they’ll start to describe and experience the brand ad as something that is unlike anything else they’ve ever done. Some of them have had an internship or they’ve had a paid job, but they’re like, I learned more in the two weeks of this program than I have in, you know, my entire time as an intern or my entire time working in x or y. And they also describe it as fundamentally different than school.
Brandon Busteed [00:18:38]:
So there’s certainly pieces of it that are academic familiar. Right? There’s classroom time, and there’s projects that they work on, and there’s some form of grading or a a rubric for evaluation. So they’re familiar with those things, but it just feels different. It’s more exciting. It’s interesting, engaging. One of the things that we hear from all the time is students who come and say, well, I was interested in fashion or I was interested in art or I was interested in sports, but I never realized all the different roles and jobs that existed in that industry. So that’s a really interesting one because we have multiple experts who are involved in co teaching these programs. The students don’t only just get to hear about the industry and learn more about art or auction world.
Brandon Busteed [00:19:20]:
Right? But they’re understanding that there’s all kinds of different jobs in these industries. Right? Way beyond what they initially probably, knew or understood. And so that understanding is a really big part of it. They’re also starting to build a Rolodex. They’re meeting people. They’re getting recommendation letters from Pulitzer prize winning journalists, you know, who who were who were faculty for them in in, you know, in the school of New York Times program. So those are a lot of the key components, but they love being able to do any kind of real hands on type work. They love to be able to connect with real people who are in these jobs currently, right, and can speak to their experience and provide, you know, some really, helpful insight and perspective to students.
Brandon Busteed [00:20:05]:
And so I think, you know, those are all things that are really, really powerful parts of it. And then I’ll just say this. There’s also just things that you just you can’t fully explain. Like, the difference between being able to actually walk into the Eddie Hyde Stadium and see it in person. Right? To be able to touch that. I mean, we’re delivering plenty of really valuable online experiences as part of what we’re doing as well. But for those students that can actually touch the mothership in that situation or they visit the New York Times headquarters or they go to a Sotheby’s auction house, those are things that students just think of as signature experiences in their, you know, in their in their lives. And so there’s so many aspects of it that I think are are really powerful.
Brandon Busteed [00:20:47]:
But I would say if I boil it down to what’s, you know, what we’ve honed in on most in terms of a a pedagogy is how we cocreate and co teach everything between an industry expert and educational experts. That partnership is where so much magic happens. And it’s different, I’ll say, Shiro, than the typical example of, I’ll say, a faculty member who invites a guest lecturer in. You know, they do a one time forty minute guest lecture from an industry expert or whatever.
Shiro [00:21:15]:
Mhmm.
Brandon Busteed [00:21:15]:
Usually, there’s not a lot of pre thought put into what is that topic, how does it gel with what we’re already learning, you know, how do we have time to interact with the students. It’s usually a lecture, it’s delivered, and they’re gone. This is way different than that. Right? This is actually thinking about what are the experiences we’re gonna create with the students where that industry expert and that educational expert are working together and then delivering it together. That’s where there’s a lot of magic. And I would suggest that any college or university, if they put some elbow grease behind that kind of effort, they can go make that kind of stuff happen just as easily.
Shiro [00:21:49]:
Yeah. I like the tips. Thank you so much. That’s that’s great. And I believe that this the stadium you’re in reference to is the man Manchester City Football Team Stadium. Right?
Brandon Busteed [00:21:58]:
You you got it. Yeah. So I I should have made that super clear, but, yeah, we we work with only one football partner, and then Man City is it. So, yeah, Etihad Stadium is their, mothership stadium. So
Shiro [00:22:09]:
That’s amazing. Yeah. I can’t I’ve never been, but I know they’re they’re becoming a stronger brand in the recent years, so it’s it’s probably very, very exciting. So
Brandon Busteed [00:22:18]:
Yeah.
Shiro [00:22:18]:
No. This is this is really fantastic. And then I know you just gave some tips to higher ed traditional higher ed about how you can adopt bits and pieces of this, but, like, my question when listening to all this is industry experts. Right? Like, for example, like, I’m a demand gen marketer. That’s my expertise. Now if I were to go ahead and teach a class on this, it might take me some time to get there. Like, how do you partner with the actual industry experts to get them to become educators as well? Like, do you just have to find the right people? Like, what’s that process been like? Because I think there’s there’s gotta be some, time to to learn how to educate as well.
Brandon Busteed [00:23:00]:
Yeah. Look. There’s real work involved there. Right? It isn’t as, you know, magic wand waving as as some would hope it is where you just invite somebody in and they, you know, they do their thing. I think what this won’t surprise you or anybody listening. There’s a lot of folks in jobs that, you know, industry experts who aren’t very good at teaching. Right? They aren’t very engaging. Their style is not, you know, really exciting.
Brandon Busteed [00:23:23]:
They haven’t thought carefully about, like, hey. What would a a 16 year old student really like to know? How can I, you know, connect and relate to them? And then also they’re not thinking about how can I create this as something where there might be reflective exercises as part of it? Right? Building some of the educational rigor components around it in a way that make it a more meaningful experience and ensure that it’s a a consistently high quality experience. So, you know, we do a number of things. We’ll we’ll do training for industry experts on how to deliver a great class. Right? Certain tips and and things not to do. We’ll also have our education partners work with them, again, as a partner in helping craft the the syllabus, right, and the content. And some of that will be done by the educator with some guidance from the industry expert. In some cases, it’s the educator saying, hey.
Brandon Busteed [00:24:13]:
It would be great if you could include a case study or an example like this. And with some prompting, the expert goes, oh, yeah. Yeah. I know what you’re talking about. Right? So it’s that it’s that connection between the two. But if you are left with just an educator who hasn’t been in the industry, who hasn’t been in a role, these are really smart people, but they don’t fully grasp all the nuances. And then the industry expert, obviously, in many cases, some are naturally great teachers, but they’re few and far between. You know, they usually need some support, some guidance.
Brandon Busteed [00:24:44]:
And then once they’ve been involved in programs, they quickly get pretty smart about it in terms of how to do great teaching if we, you know, wanna use that as, as one of the descriptors. So, you know, once somebody’s done one or two of these programs with us, we have a lot who are eager to come back. The industry experts that is who are eager to come back, keep doing it more. It gets easier and easier and more natural for them. But, but it’s not as simple as just plugging in, people and assuming that it’s gonna work.
Shiro [00:25:11]:
No. I I I really, really like this, and I I do think that once you become an expert in a specific topic or industry or role, like, there is a feeling that you wanna give back a little bit. Like, at some point, I’m a part of, who knows, maybe 10 different marketing Slack groups, and half the time, I’m not reading. I’m just answering people with their questions they have on how to spend money on LinkedIn ads, for example. And so, like, you know, you do wanna be a part of community. So I think this is just the, you know, the longer game of that. And so, it makes a lot of sense to me.
Brandon Busteed [00:25:44]:
Yeah. Appreciate it. You know, you made this point. Like, almost everybody who, is on the industry expert side of our, you know, teams that teach, they all, you know, exactly what you said. You know, they feel like it’s their opportunity to give back for, you know, the experience that they’ve had, right, to teach the next generation of folks in the industry. They’re also usually very passionate about the industry they’re in, and they’re passionate about the organizations they work for. And so they they look at the opportunity to teach, interact with students as a real pay it forward, type of moment. And especially in industries where, like, take journalism, you know, the farm system, so to speak, has evaporated.
Brandon Busteed [00:26:24]:
Right? A lot of smaller local news and media organizations have gone out of business. And so the the, you know, the way to do talent development in journalism is not as clear as it was decades ago when you had a lot of opportunities as a young budding journalist to get experience, right, and then work yourself up the ranks into some of the major, you know, national publications. It doesn’t really exist anymore. Right? So, so those who are in the field recognize that they are more eager to contribute to, you know, teaching and and supporting the next generation. So I I think that’s a really cool part of what we do is that we see joy, you know, in the in the faces of our teachers and industry experts. It’s not just the students. Everybody’s getting something out of it.
Shiro [00:27:07]:
No. This is great. And you’re you’re so right. The pathway to couriers has changed over the last fifty years, so the educational models also have to change as well. I like it. Well, switching gears quite a bit from our our previous topic here. I know when we first chatted, you really talked we talked a little bit more about the business front about education and really how it’s important to understand CAC. So could you first explain what CAC is? Just spell it out for us, and we’ll go from there.
Brandon Busteed [00:27:36]:
Yeah. Sure. Well, you know, it’s a it’s a common business term, obviously, less so in in higher ed, but it’s as relevant to higher ed as it is any type of organization. And it’s it’s really your cost to acquire a customer. In this case, the cost of acquiring a new student. And so, you know, we use other terminology that everybody’s familiar with, enrollment management and marketing. Right? That is one of the parts of the organization that’s heavily involved in CAC. And so, you know, it it it goes all the way up the gamut, though, to, how are you leveraging alumni for word-of-mouth referrals, right, not just for their own children, but to what degree do you have raving fan alums who are telling prospective students and their parents, oh, you know, you really wanna go to x or y college.
Brandon Busteed [00:28:23]:
You know, and and so it’s it’s it’s not just the pure enrollment management, marketing, advertising function. It’s really multiple components of the university. But in in effect, if you think about it in terms of of the business model of higher education, this is true in in education writ large, whether you’re a nonprofit organization, a for profit, the cost of acquiring a new student has gone up incredibly over the last ten or fifteen years. In fact, it’s one of the the most unsustainable increasing costs right now in higher ed. And that’s why it’s important that any institution, whether they use the term CAC or not, really think carefully about how much are we spending to gain a net new student enrollment. Right? And if that is, you know, for example, think about some ratios. If that’s 10% of the total revenue I get from tuition, that’s a really good CAC ratio. Right? If it’s 50%, that’s a really troubling ratio.
Brandon Busteed [00:29:21]:
You’re probably on your way to going out of business because your, you know, your cost of acquiring a student is is ultimately higher than, you know, you’re able to support the growth of that incremental enrollment. So so that really becomes pretty key. And then, of course, the strategies for how can I acquire new students without spending money? You know, I can up my social media advertising or Google AdWords search budget or, you know, I can invest in billboards and radio. Right? Those are things that always cost real dollars. Some of them are really important yield drivers. But you say, okay. What are some of the other ways in which I can attract a student that don’t really cost me hard dollars? Right? So that’s where the alumni word-of-mouth or getting your faculty more prominently featured. Can I offer short courses for free from my faculty where students like, oh my gosh? I wanna take a course with professor so and so at university x.
Brandon Busteed [00:30:14]:
Right? And so there are a whole bunch of ways that I think universities have largely left untouched in the spirit of driving down the cost of acquiring a new student. And and it’s beyond just thinking about the hard dollar spend solutions that we think about very traditionally.
Shiro [00:30:33]:
Oh, that’s that’s really good. And I love that you you’ve taken it outside of just enrollment marketing and paid channels, because I think, going back to our prior conversation, I believe word-of-mouth is actually a huge driver for a lot of your pre college programs. Right? And that is compounded on not marketing you’re doing for those programs, but a lot of it’s just the value in in the programs you provide, and that’s compounding to to friends telling friends or family telling friends.
Brandon Busteed [00:31:01]:
Absolutely. Right? You think about it. Like, we we’ll in higher ed, we’ll use terms like student satisfaction or we’ll talk about high impact practices. Right? What are the things that actually move the needle on word-of-mouth. Right? The likelihood that me as a student or me as an alum goes and says to somebody else, like
Shiro [00:31:17]:
Mhmm.
Brandon Busteed [00:31:18]:
Oh, yeah. You really want my alma mater’s Duke University. You really wanna go to Duke because of x, y, or z. Right? And it’s not, you know, so so but but here’s the point. Universities really don’t use the terminology word-of-mouth. They haven’t really attached to a metric like NPS, Net Promoter Score, which is a common customer satisfaction metric in business. The reason why a lot of businesses care about it is because the higher the NPS score, the more somebody spends with you as an organization. Right? And so there’s a real business return on investment linked to higher NPS scores.
Brandon Busteed [00:31:51]:
NPS scores and word-of-mouth are are very related. Right? If a student had an incredible experience, they’re more likely to tell friends about it. If they had a truly life changing experience, they can’t help but not tell other people about it. And I think that’s what I was was most attracted to me when I chose to come work at BrandED a year ago is I looked at the programs and I said to myself, I’ve never seen anything like this. These are the most engaging, exciting industry immersive programs I’ve ever seen. Compliments I paid to the organization before I joined it. Right? So this is not me complimenting anything to my leadership over the last year, but it’s very much about the model. It’s about the brands that we work with.
Brandon Busteed [00:32:30]:
It’s about the incredible experiences. And And I’ll just give you an example. Last summer was the first summer that we launched Vogue summer school for high school students. Right? The students that were there had an incredible experience. Several of them talked about that experience on social media channels, and a couple of those went truly viral. And it wasn’t like they were just like, hey, Vogue, summer school is awesome. They were talking all about it. They were talking about what they had done, the projects they worked on, the friends they made, the people they met in the industry.
Brandon Busteed [00:32:59]:
And and there’s no doubt in my mind, Shiro, that our growth right now in enrollment this summer is being driven in large part to the outstanding word-of-mouth and then the viral promotion of that from students who are there. So, you know, our students who experienced the program have now become some of the biggest promoters, and that should be what colleges and universities strive for. Not just graduation rates, graduating in a place where you’re like, that everybody else about it.
Shiro [00:33:30]:
Yeah. This is this is so fascinating, and I’m I’m so excited for everything to come with pre college programming. Like, I I just feel like this is a huge untapped market. So really excited. I’m very happy you explained CAC too because, you know, we we everything is based on numbers in in marketing as well. Right? We have to figure out how much we pay for things. We turn campaigns off. And so really understanding your customer acquisition cost is is so key to to what I do in my day to day.
Shiro [00:33:57]:
And so I I I think is if you’re in marketing, whether that’s in higher ed or in in higher ed, SaaS, it it doesn’t matter. It’s very important. So really appreciate those points.
Brandon Busteed [00:34:07]:
Yeah. Definitely. Hey. And and look. If if you don’t, you know, if you’re in higher ed and you don’t like the term CAC or customer acquisition cost, come up with a different name for it, but, like, understand that it’s a fundamental driver of long term success. So, you know, but put the names aside if the name bothers you. Just, you know, don’t don’t lose track of the fundamental behind it.
Shiro [00:34:26]:
No. I appreciate this. Well, I I think, we’re just at about time here. I’m wondering where our listeners can follow-up with Brand Ed and you, Brandon.
Brandon Busteed [00:34:35]:
Yeah. So look. We’re we’re just engaging in a number of partnership discussions for the first time, with colleges and universities to help support their students coming into industry immersive education programs that we’re running. So now is a good time to begin some conversations with us. We’re at we’re at branded-edu.com, and you can also find me on LinkedIn, Brandon Bastide. I I’m the only only Brandon Bastide on LinkedIn, so I should be easy to find.
Shiro [00:35:03]:
Well, thank you, Brandon, so much. It’s been an awesome conversation.
Brandon Busteed [00:35:07]:
Yeah. Thanks a lot for having me, and, really appreciate all the great questions.
